Let’s get a couple things straight first before continuing. First I’m not at anyone’s beck and call on this forum or anywhere else. I come and go as I please like everyone else. Second, I did respond to your post in the one below and originally quoted said post, but the system decided “hey we’re removing that quote” for whatever dumb reason the system doesn’t like posts. I’ve ignored nothing from you as the next post was directed towards yours. But let’s address this latest post since you want a response.
No it’s actually not meaningless as it goes towards a bigger point. Everyone pays a sub, be it through gold or actual cash, that much is true. As part of a sub everyone is granted access to the content in the game, including group content. As part of people’s sub they’re entitled to seek out fun wherever they can find it so long as it’s within the rules of the game and not at the expense of other people. Both of us are free to form our own private groups and also to use the group finder. Since the group finder is meant for everyone and not just me, not just the twinks, or just the people in this forum, blizzard has to balance what is good for everyone and can’t take just one side or the other into account.
In this instance when the twink is grouped with people one of several things can happen. Folks may approve of what he’s doing in which case there is no problem. You could have an instance where folks don’t approve and the twink gets booted and he’s now eating a 30 minute penalty. Then you could have an instance where some folks want the twink and some don’t, thus stalemating the group and now 2 people either have to eat a penalty or stick around and be forced to watch someone else play. Either way the second scenarios are no bueno. So something has got to give in this instance because that one twink does not get to have his fun at the expense of other people. Multiple subs trump the singular one every single time in instances like this.
As I said elsewhere it’s the same concept as on ye olden pvp servers when the clowns would kill the quest givers then say “but I’m not stopping you from playing, you can go do something else for awhile.” The pvp guy is allowed to have his fun, but not at the expense of other people by outright stopping them from playing. Same concept here with the twink.
I’m not inviting twinks to private runs so yes it was LFG. However that is ultimately irrelevant and this does not help your case like you think it does. Everyone has the ability to form private groups, that’s true. However the whole “form your own private groups” only goes so far and doesn’t address the overall issue at hand, more on why in a bit. You’re partially correct that hitting the find group button is a throw of the dice, however where you’re wrong is giving consent to have a twink preventing me from playing.
When I press that find group button, I am signing up for GROUP content and consenting to be grouped with people for said content. Maybe I get a group, maybe I get a bad one. The key here is that I’m signing up for a GROUP activity. I am not signing up to be a twink’s +4 to get in the door and follow along behind said twink not getting to play at all, nor is a vast majority of other people. The problem here is that people are signing up for group content, but instead being prevented from playing by one guy who is exploiting busted mechanics to one shot everything and kill it so fast the other 4 don’t even get to cast a single spell. Again if other people like that sort of thing, more power to them. I had no issue with them seeking out their fun until they started trying to hijack runs and say “deal with it.”
Again the twink is the odd man out, thus he’s the one making his own groups. I’m not going to be told I can’t use the group finder because one guy thinks he should be allowed to invalidate group content and make it all about himself. There’s one of several ways this can go.
- Remove the ability of sub 20 toons to xp lock (not ideal)
- Fix the formulas allowing for the op scaling (most ideal)
- revert the scaling so everyone is at 30 again
- lock twinks into their own group pools (not as good as 2)
You say I’m wanting special treatment, then so are you and the twinks by your own standard. I’m going to ask you the same thing. Why can you not form your own groups? If as people say the majority has no issue with twinks and likes to group with them, certainly your group would fill up fast after a couple ads in chat. If they’re the majority, what are they afraid of?
You also say I’m asking others to do something I’m not willing to do myself, yet so are the twinks. If my saying for them to make their own groups as the odd man out is “asking others to do something you’re not willing to do yourself” then twinks telling me to “leave and make your own groups if you don’t like it” is them refusing to do something they demand of me. So pot meet kettle. Stuff like this is why the whole “form your own groups” only goes so far in situations like this. It’s a band-aid solution at best that doesn’t address the root issue. Just like if one’s cat leaves a pile outside the litter box. Closing the door and turning on the ceiling fan may mean you don’t have to look at it or smell it in the rest of the house, but it doesn’t fix the issue. At some point you have to clean up the mess.
Now back to the special treatment thing. People demanding twinks be allowed to keep their ability to one shot, demanding nerfs to resto shaman in m+, demanding buffs to (class/spec), demanding punishment for people who leave m+ keys, and similar are all asking for special treatment by the logic you’re using here. Anyone who asks for anything can be said to be asking for special treatment. I am not asking for any kind of special advantage, I’m asking that an issue be addressed so I can actually get to play and then the chips fall where they may.
In the 20 years of this game’s existence, anytime something super OP came up it’s been addressed. Never have they ever intended for anyone to be able to one shot current content, even if it’s scaled towards the lower end of the gear spectrum. If something is OP they try to tune it such as the m+ examples I gave. Not to mention they also took away the ability of level 70 toons to xp lock due to scaling issues. Level 70 toons couldn’t even one shot, yet their ability to xp lock was removed due to scaling. Blizzard doesn’t like when something becomes THE answer in all cases, nor do they like people invalidating content. Because of the issues with twinks in pvp they put them in their own XP pool. So I’m not asking blizzard to do anything they don’t already do or haven’t done. Precedent is by far on my side.
What I’ve been asking for is blizzard to either fix the scaling, or put twinks in their own group pools like they already do for pvp. Twinks are still able to compete and have fun in pvp even grouped in their own pools, so why should pve be different if as many people like grouping with them as you say? I’m saying blizzard needs to do something so the myself AND the twinks both get to play. Because clearly what we have right now isn’t working. Twinks being grouped into their own pools solved many of the pvp complaints around them. Now the twinks can do their own thing, and folks who don’t mind playing against the twinks can group with them to get into the twink pool. Likewise folks on the pve side of things could group with the twinks to get carried to max if that’s what they want to do, and folks like myself can go on with our day. Yet some folks act like it’s blasphemy to suggest both sides should get to play.
You said it yourself that LFG is a tool that everyone uses. If the twinks have a right to play, so do I. Yet their actions and the current setup steal my ability to do so. Thus we have a problem that needs to be addressed and can be solved in 5 minutes.
Then you group with the twinks and do your own thing instead of trying to prevent others from playing. See above, you don’t get to prevent 4 other people from playing just because you want to be a one man show.
Thank you for proving my point for me that blizzard tries to keep things as balanced as they can. We can debate how well they succeed in that goal, but bottom line is they do in fact try to squash super OP stuff. You’re always going to have some kind of class/spec that mathematically does more than the others. However you can get them to within a few percent of each other. However we’re not talking about a few percentage points here. we’re talking about a massive disparity that allows people to invalidate group content. You’re talking to someone here with 20 years experience in creating content for other games and what’s going on now is bad design.
And see this right here is the problem with the twinks. You’re trying to have your cake and eat it too and you don’t get to do that. Not only this, but leveling toons do NOT have exclusive claim to Timewalking as you seem to think they do. Timewalking is certainly A way to level, but under-leveled toons do NOT own Timewalking anymore than I do. You don’t get to say above that “everyone uses LFG” then try to tell me and others to “deal with it” when you prevent us from playing. Doesn’t work like that. When TW is available it’s absolutely a current content type, just scaled towards the lower end of the gear spectrum.
If you’re going to say that m+ tuning and level 70+ tuning is valid, then so is tuning the TW stuff so folks like myself and others get to play and not be reduced to an NPC in one person’s interactive movie. You don’t get to have it both ways, either tuning is valid or it’s not. You’re trying to have a double standard because you benefit from it, and sorry but no the game doesn’t revolve around singular twinks. The other 4 people have just as much right to play as you do, yet you seem to think you should be allowed to prevent them from doing so.
Disagreeing with you doesn’t mean I’m incapable of seeing your point and why you like something. You’re not entitled to have me agree with you anymore than I’m entitled to have you agree with me. It’s really a simple concept, this is GROUP content we’re talking about not 1 man twink content. As I’ve said, I’m not paying to watch another person play the game. I’m paying to get to participate. I’ve asked for changes to be made so BOTH sides get to play. Yet apparently me wanting to actually play is being selfish. If that makes me selfish then so be it. But I’m not backing off on this point because first off, I’m right and have 20 years of precedent backing me, and second I have just as much right to play as the twinks do and will not stop until the issue is fixed.