Currently on the 1.13.7 PTR Paladins are able to seal twist different ranks of thesame seals such as Rank 1 Seal of command and Rank 5 Seal of command causing a double seal of command proc in one swing. This comes across as very very silly and cheap and different ranks were nerfed with Blessing of wisdoms mana regeneration stacking. As you can see here these players knew it would be nerfed and hushed to keep it a secret. I only think with the new batching range made specifically for seal twisting that paladins should retain the ability to seal twist between different seals such as seal of command, seal of the crusader and seal of righteousness BUT they should NOT be able to stack different ranks of thesame seals such as Rank 8 and Rank 3 Seal of Righteousness. Fix this please.
I really don’t see a problem here, its actually kinda interesting and may actually open things up a little for them.
Seriously man, they’re like 1000 DPS across T4 content (average) so what’s the big deal when they’re no joke 10% down from the next tier of classes?
There’s a less-than 0.4 second window per swing to pull this off. It’s not like we can sit there and autoattack and get a DPS increase, or hammer buttons and get a dps increase. You have to manage alternating three ranks of SoC to get the best dps. You have to wait for the perfect tenth of a second on every swing to change seals. You have to factor in your own reaction time and your latency to the server.
And even then it still comes down to the % chance to proc built into SoC.
So it’s still a slot machine. Just a slot machine that can sometimes actually result in us not doing horrible dps.
This is super, super easy to reproduce on the PTR.
There’s really nothing skill intensive about it, it just turns our rotation into a metronome where we seal swap just before the end of every swing timer.
I’d rather both rank and seal twisting die in a fire. If they want to buff rets, sure, buff us, but don’t make that abomination our rotation.
I specifically did not roll hunter this time around so that I wouldn’t be glued to my swing timer for max dps.
Rank twisting is extra dumb, as making sure that you twist SoC ranks is a higher priority than any other button we do have.
Seal twisting was originally pretty limited on which seals actually could be twisted together. Making it a blanket “all of them” is silly.
There really aren’t any rogue abilities that have to be timed perfectly with your autoattack.
Warriors generate rage on there’s, and have heroic strike, but again, aren’t forced into using abilities at a specific moment within the swing timer. Sure, they have slam, but its swing delays cause it to hardly be used.
So… No, not every melee are stuck using abilities at perfect timing on every swing.
Seal of Command ranks 1 and 2 are both very low in cost, hit for the same as max rank, and the added hits recover Mana through judgement of wisdom.
The added damage from seals allows you to pull back on other buttons like judgement or consecration for a net gain.
If you care about peak output you do weave your specials between auto swings. (yeah its a real thing), although its not as big a difference as you would see with a class who’s using a slow weapon like a 2 hander or a hunter with a bow / gun or whatever.
Ok, this part confuses me and begs the question, if you are putting SoC up on as you swing to pick procs and that’s cheap are you using other seals like SoR to pick more damage? And doesn’t SoR require max rank? or even if SoV wouldn’t that require also max rank? And arent those at max rank kinda expensive?
And since the Judgement CD is something like 10 sec, then you really cant manipulate this every swing, but only few like 3 or so, right? How does the rotation look if you really wanted to push the output?
Start with SoC R5 then loop the following:
(judge+R1 macro), twist R2, twist R1, twist R5, wait for GCD to expire (so the judge+R1 macro can run to completion and re-seal R1) then immediately repeat.
Retribution has a CD lowering talent that takes Judgement down to 8 seconds, so if you’re really on top of it, you can do it a bit more often than every 3 swings.
Dropping R5 and Judgement just leaves you alternating R1 and R2 at the very end of every swing.
I’d love for SoC to guarantee its 70% holy dmg every swing and then also keep the current proc to allow for double procs. I think that would be a better buff than this, but I’ll take this over nothing.
Seal twisting alone is not going to replace exorcism and consecration. You can still use them with seal twisting. But rank twisting is. Especially with 3 seals. I worked it out. And you also have the choice to seal twist or not. Seal twisting is necessary so blood elves don’t get the last laugh in tbc. I only think rank twisting is stupid. And many people who did it in vanilla expected it to be nerfed and kept quiet about it so it wasn’t nerfed. Especially with the super mana regeneration. I am all for one for seal twisting 2 DIFFERENT seals. Try it blizzard and see if people don’t mind it. But rank twisting 3 of thesame seals is silly.
What’s to stop 3 blessing of lights with skullflame demonforge ancient hakkari all benefiting 100% spell damage or cleanse heals from the redemption set being unkillable? Make a rule where you can only have one instance of a seal name on so you may have different seals on.
Currently seal twisting on the ptr can twist between ranks, so there’s no reason to really use weaker seals like SoR or SoV. SoC deals the same damage regardless of rank, so alternating between ranks 1 and 2 gets you the max benefit for very little Mana cost.
For SoR, you don’t necessarily need to use max rank either, as rank 3 has double the SP scaling as the other ranks to help it keep up a bit without being as much of a Mana hog.
As far as judgement goes, if your weapon speed is slow enough you can twist before the swing to the max rank, judge it 1.5s in while reapplying the low rank SoC, and be ready to twist again for the next swing. That small window is what’s available for us to use all of our non-twisting GCDs, just like we were bound to when we were trying to not block nightfall procs before it got fixed. Every .1s above a 3.0s weapon increases your safe GCD use window by .1s, so we would want the slowest high dps weapon possible (although SoC’s ppm mechanics and lack of AP normalization push for that anyway)
Judging low rank SoC is also generally not a huge loss, and is a fairly common strategy for Mana conservation to allow other damaging spells.
They could also just make it not work for blood elves, so seal of blood doesn’t massively outpace what alliance can do.
No it isn’t, unless you are using attacks that reset the swing timer, or are trying to queue bug heroic strike offhand hits, no instant attacks interact with your swing timer in any way.
In game animations do sometimes get screwed up if they line up, but server side it all happens normally.
True, that does fall under the reset the swing timer category, although a positive form of it.
That’s been tricky to work in with the batching delays on the procs currently, but you’ll have more control of it soon with batching gone so you can get a bit more out of the mainland swing resets.