That approves exactly my calculation.
Use your number divided by 5-7 million sub: Each player/account does less than 1 M+ per month.
But you fail to define what numbers would qualify as being popular. Nor do you attempt to demonstrate how popular any other endgame mode happens to be. Among endgame modes in WoW, M+ is the most played by a country mile. Unless you think endgame activities should be completely redesigned until half the player base engages with it regularly every week, itâs unclear what point youâre trying to drive at in response to M+ popularity claims.
It doesnât, but if you need to tell yourself that to sleep then by all means go for it.
This is some major mental gymnastics.
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How are folks looking for a challenge going to get in?
ohhh⌠Thatâs the first challenge.
I used to think this was a silly post, but now I see what OPâs doing. more content. very nice.
Keys serve no purpose but limiting playersâ choice.
Iâm not disagreeing.
I donât follow the logic, tho.
Honestly, though. I donât M+ enough to really care. Iâm not overly affected by endgame content. I donât enjoy myself there as much as I do running around in the wild.
Iâm a bad. Didnât they tell you?
Keys help prevent players from getting carried (either intentionally or unintentionally) to a level they are unprepared for and then continuing to create/join groups that are destined for failure until they find a team that can carry them to success.
I donât even know how to get keys for mythic+
- If M+ adpats Torghast/Delves mode, a player can only enter +N+1 if he have timed a +N. There is no such thing as âunpreparedâ. If one has timed a +5, then he is prepared for +6, no matter if he was carried or not.
And I also suggest minimum item level required for each level, to avoid intentionally low item level player to get carried.
- If players âcontinue to create groups that destined for failure, until find a team that can carry themâ, what is the problem?
There is no problem with that. If a player meets the minimum item level requirement, timed a +N, then he is allowed to join a +N+1. If he is willing to try many times to form different groups again and again to beat the dungeon, there is nothing wrong.
He may be less skilled, but in the end his persistence pays, if he finds people willing to carry him.
For people who doesnât want to carry others, sure, just leave the group and never join this person again. That is the same as today.
Serious players do that. Those of the âgo, go, goâ ideology go to delves to equip themselves while gagging from being in a delve, and go directly into the +7 or +8 âbecause I am capable.â That âIâm capableâ means âI do dpsâ, because it is precisely the practice of the place, trash, boss, that makes you an expert (or not) of the instance.
Iâm not even worried about this proposition because Iâve always done it that way. That only worries those who believe that dps is everything.
This is just not a true statement at all. A player could literally AFK at the start while their team completes the +5. They will not be any more prepared for the +6 because of having been party to a +5 being completed.
And even if they didnât AFK, if they were over their heads in the +5, many will benefit from running the +5 (or lower) again until they feel more comfortable before they go into that +6. By having to maintain a level on a key, a single carry will decay week after week if the person isnât able to get a group that can make up for their deficiencies, something that would not happen under your system.
- Those players are going to have a worse experience getting repeated failures.
- The number of groups destined for failure being higher creates more noise for players looking for keys to sift through.
- For anyone who does take a flyer on that group (or doesnât know/think to check the IO), theyâre going to have a worse experience once the key starts and itâs clear at least one person isnât up to par for that key level.
M+ level inflation is honestly worse overall for far more people than the current key depletion system. Iâm not saying key depletion is perfect and there couldnât be changes; I think having a charge system to insulate the random bad group or troll from hurting a key holderâs key level would be good. But making it so players can only ever fail upward in their M+ level regardless how well they perform themselves is terrible.
Again, you arenât considering the impact across the community, just for a single individual. Itâs already hard enough to find a group that has members capable of completing their key beyond a +7ish from the information at our disposal. That task would become even more challenging if players can turn a carry at any point in the season into a permanent listing they arenât capable of performing in.
And thatâs before we even get into the massive time sink youâve created for players who now need to time every key level for every dungeon the whole way up the chain.
Itâs fine if you think the reasons myself and others have given for why keys are good for the game donât outweigh the positives you think would exist if they werenât in the game. But thatâs just not the same as you claim that they serve no purpose except to limit playersâ choices. Hell, even your own response to my rebuttal shows that you understand there is a benefit to keys, you just donât think itâs enough of a benefit to warrant the downsides you feel they carry.
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I agree with a lot of things you said.
But I donât see the problem of âonly fail upwardâ. It is like the M+ rating today, you only gain rating when you push higher levels, but never lose rating when you fail existing levels.
If the system makes you lose M+ rating when you fail to time a key, there will be much less players willing to try.
It is exactly the fear of âfailure of depleting/downgradeâ of the key, makes players harder to find group, and make the group atmosphere intense and toxic.
If players get reward of upgrade for completing, and no punishment of downgrade for losing, they will be much more willing to try. And they will be more relaxed and less toxic , since they are not afraid of failure.
While there is truth to this, the key difference is the ability to start the group. M+ rating relies on other people to invite you to their group if you arenât holding the key yourself. And the key, even if you get one out of the vault at a high level (for your abilities) after being carried in a group, will decay over time. You canât get a carry for level X in week Y of the season and still form a group for level X + 1 in week Y + 5. After even a single week, you will need to complete a level X key to get back to the level where you can create a group. This keeps the number of keys listed by players who are not able to perform in such a level lower than if they just need to get through one level lower a single time in the season.
Iâd love to see some data on this. While Iâm certain this is true for some players, I doubt itâs true for all. With the exception of when someone gets what is deemed a good key at a high level (for them), I suspect more players are just simply wanting to make the most of their play time.
Yeah it sucks to have my key level drop when a group makes significant mistakes, but the bigger issue is the time loss to get reduced rewards (or no rewards if the group doesnât finish). As someone with a quite limited schedule to play WoW, spending an hour forming a group and attempting a key only to have the group disband is the worst case scenario as Iâm trying to build up my gear or score on that character.
And that wouldnât change even if keys went away. But since there would be far more players creating groups they arenât capable of leading to success, it would become more difficult to find the groups that are likely to succeed as there would be more that cannot. That will make it more likely that I get into groups destined to fail and thus be even more of a time waste for character progression.
While also increasing the number of groups that are incapable of succeeding at the level they are attempting. I am not trying to suggest there are no benefits to your idea, I just think the negatives outweigh those positives. And since Iâm not convinced the driving force behind how picky players are in their keys is even primarily down to worry about their key dropping, I worry that the positives would be even less pronounced than the negatives.
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