Honestly. I think this is a big flaw in arena. I wouldn’t mind a faster paced game with more mana punishment.
If they did this somehow I think there would have to be alot of pruning of DPS self healing. As well as the removal of Mana Rift.
I just think there is something wrong about healers being at 70% mana at 80% dampening.
Also healers seem to be able to heal pretty well even when they are OOM. Guess there are things that could be improved everywhere.
I mean there’s a few outliers that should have mana cost increase, don’t think it’s really fair to lump all the healers together when 2 of them are on an entirely different level.
Not to mention that the reason mana isn’t going down is because the most popular comps do literally nothing in between gos (which you can’t actually heal through anyways so you have to los). If you want mana to matter you buff sustained DPS’ers and rot.
I think it’s probably more complex than that, however that is a part of it.
“Literally nothing” may be a stretch
I think all healers are capable of sustaining mana pretty well if they take a build for it. HPal has the best mana sustain easily. Not sure I can pinpoint #2 that you are mentioning.
If you dont understand that MW is right there with hpal (arguably better on mana), then you shouldn’t have made a thread about healer mana until you understand it completely.
Except they are not?
you’re really going to regret this wish if it happens in Shadowlands with the return of x/Affliction/Rsham.
Those fights are rough as Holy without double dispell. But as Disc they were never to bad. Double dispell and MD made it pretty manageable.
i just remember back in the day at 2300 as RLS going against like WLS/MLS etc matches often lasting for 9 minutes on average because no dampening and shaman mastery and synergy with warlocks. just having to poke and prod for CDs and defensives and whoever fell out of sync first lost.
Dampening has been the biggest double edged sword against rot comps since its inception. Prior to that, rot comps could literally just play against the mana pools of other healers and just turtle. Even disc eventually fell behind.
Honestly, I wouldn’t even mind giving priests and hunter mana drain back and just going full circle back to TBC or wrath. You could definitely improve upon the old system to avoid the long games. Infinite mana with dampening as the closing factor feels full on retard. Make mana impactful
you’re really going to regret this wish if it happens in Shadowlands with the return of x/Affliction/Rsham.
+1 i support this
I’d take SL/SL every day of the week over the current state of destro with literally every single DR in the game: fear, succubus incap, roots, coil, aoe stuns, holy sh!t just typing this out makes me hurt inside
just remember back in the day at 2300 as RLS going against like WLS/MLS etc matches often lasting for 9 minutes on average
9 minutes of this was so much nicer than 20m of 75% damp MLx
The idea that the games saved by adjusting mana values goes into the same category as the 13hundos that spam solo q
Kind of a broad statement and oversimplifying my point but I am all… eyes? Elaborate on what you mean by this.
Very clever.
We’ll never go that far back. Regrettably, entirely too much pruning and class homogenization has taken place. Not unless a sanctioned TBC or after version of classic comes out and Blizzard realizes a significant portion of the player base truly wants that again.
I agree because you had to actually setup for the kill using more than just a cross CC chain, so it was definitely more rewarding to land the kill. Especially against dumb warriors who used recklessness without trink and a cancel aura macro. lol.
EDIT: Another point on this. I watched the VODs from over the weekend and stopped watching when I saw an MLx beat another team that was turtling during 89% dampening and they died to immolate. I almost unsubbed at that moment. That was worse than watching Joefernandez win blizzcon as turbo in WoD.
Dont be too hard on yourself moo moo guy.
It’s not the mana. It’s the damage. Damage outside of cds and ignoring gimmicky corruptions, is low. They need to buff healing and buff damage. There is a reason why comps like php and thug aren’t as prevalent.
In wrath, a well placed kick, even early in a match could grab a win. We need to reward setup and decision making more. BFA has done the opposite of that.
I think one of my least favourite thing is blizzard removing more and more active buttons and replacing them with modifiers and cooldowns to make it possible to burn through these hundreds of thousands of health when our base abilities hit for <20k in most cases.
I really think it’s as black and white as looking at something simple, like smite. Or Frostbolt. Or Eviscerate/Envenom
In wotlk, lets look at s8. If my memory serves, people without pve gear, in decent like 1200 resil or w/e was optimal. Had 25-30k health, depending on class, buffs, gems, trinket choice, etc.
On resilience, unless i’m remembering poorly, smite would hit for like 3kish, Frostbolt 5k-8k? crits and a 5 stack Envenom like 5-8k crit or something as well.
So that’s a decently large crit on a 25k healthpool. 20% or so, less or more depending on resilience, procs, etc. And the big spellpower / other stat procs and buffs, those were from pve gear. Which meant less resilience, which meant you were trading durability for damage.
This made for a very fast pace, where like you say, one interrupt could end / change the pace of a game instantly. Or one misused cooldown.
I really hate how most things moved to passive dps that only spikes inside of big cooldowns.
Yea, damage was a lot higher in wrath and the earlier expansions. There wasn’t as many ways to counter this as there are now. Now every other spec has a 1 minute CD and a God Like trinket or Essence. Watching RPS in the tournament was painful. Started getting that MoP God Comp vibe…
In wotlk, my destro could hit someone for 70% of their health with CB and conflag. The problem was… I had no follow up damage outside of incinerate. CB had a relatively short cd at 12s if I recall. I would die in a bladestorm if I didn’t have outside healing. Deep freeze was scary.
While the damage was huge, healers had huge healing. A well placed holy light was enough to top most targets. Disc shields… actually needed to be purged/dispelled. Not that rapture shields are weak, but outside of rapture they don’t account for much compared to the past.
That said, kicks were huge. A well placed kick could easily gib a player. Juking was so much more important. Now, every caster has two schools and kicking can actually punish you. Oh, you want to kick the greater? thanks, I needed to cast polymorph anyways. It’s made for some terrible gameplay.
The game just isn’t rewarding like it used to be. I notice this so much on my hunter. Get a trap on the healer with dots rolling on the kill target and health just doesn’t move. Then I get a lucky crit with mecha trinket and essence and I do half a players health while no CC is on the healer and land a kill.
I hate it.
A few things in this thread caught my eye, more or less reasons bliz will never “fix” this type of issue. The majority want to step in and be done in 5 minutes tops, preferably faster. 9 minutes is long? I had more attention span then that when I was three years old! Corruptions as I think someone said “gimmic” damage, no real damage being done just proc killing by facerolling to get it to proc is not skill, nor do I see it as fun.
Whatever happened to teams that wanted to use skill, sometimes that took literally hours (thinking back to 114 minutes against two resto druids here lol) Mana management got removed because…people just want to hit a rotation that is statistically superior, can’t please everyone and bliz wants to please the mindless…we lose 
Well I think this is the main issue. Yeah healers don’t go oom as much as they used to, which is partly due to how their classes are designed. But the main issue I think that is plaguing arena is the fact that basically every class has some baked in sustain/self-heal into their kits that require healers to have to heal less.
The self healing needs to be toned down before they touch healers. WoW was 10x better when each DPS spec didn’t have some random passive self-heal passive that doesn’t require any brain power to use.