In Season of Discovery, Blackwing Lair is a 20-40 player raid dungeon and Zul’gurub is a 10-20 player raid dungeon. Blackwing Lair is tuned for 20 players but will allow up to 40 players inside the dungeon, and Zul’Gurub is tuned for 10 players but will allow up to 20 inside. The difficulty will not scale or change, and the number of loot drops does not increase or decrease based on the number of participants in the raid.
Nobody cares about Zul’Gurub, in the end of the day is an catch-up raid and enchant farming for mains, repeatable, and nobody cares about it progress.
But BWL? Are you seriously in the point of ‘‘Flex until 40 without difficulty increase’’? Are you allow to do so on Retail for mythic diff? I didnt see that, ever.
Reconsider right now that and just allow it to flex content like onyxia, world bosses or ZG but do not broke the one single ‘‘progress raid’’ with that guffy design.
If it bothers you so much you can simply run it as 20! It’s a great change and welcomed by most of the community!! Hope you have a great day Dtriggersfmg
Again. Blizzard employees want to make it for everyone but remove the challenge that presents itself. If you want to have 20-40 player raiding, you should still have the content scale based on how many players are present.
1-20 the raid is scaled and tuned for 20 players, when you add another person to make 21, it is scaled to 25 players.
26 -30 Scaled for 30
31- 35 Scaled for 35 and so on…
It still allows the player-base to play with larger raid sizes and still can keep the difficulty checkmarks.
I think this is a very very huge nice change. It makes my guild stronger when facing emergency such as sudden absence, and we don’t need to put some friends on the bench because of the 20-man rule.
That would be a better design but I don’t get the feeling they have the resource required to balance multiple raid tiers. Especially when players are super min/max and will constantly find the one less balanced tier.
Hence they are going with 1 tier and letting the players decide what to bring.
its not flex, thats a misnomer that the sod community is giving it, its just double the amount of people can enter the raid if you choose to, there’s no loot scaling or difficulty scaling
That’s cute. ZG gear is all epic now, has a hardmode of some sort given the “Bloodied” cosmetic description on weapons, and dramatically improved a number of unique items. We’ll mostly be going for our T2 in BWL but the ZG set and a number of off-set items from ZG will be BiS.
Why do you care if a group of people cut their loot ratio in half by doubling the raid size? Genuinely asking.
I’m not worried about the loot, the parses or the competition.
I’m concerned about the feeling that the content we’re making has value, impact, and a certain difficulty within the parameters of what we can consider difficulty in Classic.
The devs have scaled these raids for 20 people, adding more characters to that is objectively destroying the concept, the difficulty and the point with which it has been designed.
As the current GM of a guild with 4 rosters, for me it will be a difficult decision to leave people on the bench because a group of ‘‘20’’ people wants to feel the difficulty of the content, we will be forced to raid with more than 20 all the weeks and in no case will we be able to experience the true development of the raid.
It is not the only field and concept where there is a maximum of possible players, you can look at Mythic retail capped to 25 or a football match capped to 11. I don’t see any harm in experimenting with concepts, that’s what SoD is for, but I think this is a terrible decision that breaks the schemes of the most demanding Classic players. We do not have to forget where we come from or where we want to go, and this is not a good destination at al. At least for me and a lot of folks.
I think there is a genuine discussion around how easy do you allow raids to be. Obviously bringing 40 to a 20 man tuned raid is the equivalent of running story mode.
This feels like Blizzard testing the waters to see if the Classic community will accept it.
so you can take 40 people to a 20 man raid, oh and each of these 40 people are super overpowered with a bunch of expansion skills good lord, nef is gonna die in 30 seconds.
So guilds have the ability to bring twenty additional people if they want to have an easier time. Yeah that tracks with Classic quite well actually in a world of:
stacking a dozen consumables
prepping out 7 (for now) world buffs
actually min/maxing gear
actually min/maxing spec
Vanilla was tuned, until around Princess Huhu or so, to be doable by half-drunk, come as you are, do as you please, raiders. SoD is only moderately above that.
BWL was never a hard raid. Folks didn’t start breaking in Classic until AQ40 a bit, and then really started failing at Naxx. So that BWL will have the option to stack people up and plow through it doesn’t bother me an iota. I don’t expect issues in the raid.
No one is forcing you to do anything. This doesn’t even follow. You take your 20m teams and send them on their way just like you do now. If two of the teams really dislike struggling as a 20m, they can group up and have at it. You’re incentivized to NOT stack extras if you can help it because loot won’t increase, and because of that incentive extra raiders will likely feel like a crutch to many.
But you’re crying about a leadership choice YOU OWN. That’s not on Blizzard whatsoever.
good lord, nef is gonna die in 30 seconds.