So does that mean Whitemane and Renault lasted that long too?
Is Renault’s death in the Ashbringer comic now retconned too, or did he come back?
If Whitemane lived to Cata, why had the Scarlets replaced her with a new High Inquisitor by the onset of Wrath? (Fairbanks>Whitemane>Valroth)
Since Whitemane’s whole gimmick even in MOP remains her rez, why are we assuming any of the Scarlet leadership evaded death as opposed to being rezzed?
Renault’s death canonically occurred during Vanilla. The event could be played out in-game if you got the Corrupted Ashbringer from Naxxramas and brought it to the Scarlet Monastery, and then there was of course the Warcraft Comic which also covered his death.
She lived until Mists of Pandaria, and the Scarlet Crusade doesn’t have just one of any particular rank for the most part. Sally Whitemane was the High Inquisitor of the Monastery, while Valroth was the High Inquisitor of Tyr’s Hand.
This is evidenced by the fact that the Scarlet Crusade had 2 High Protectors, 2 Scarlet Commanders, 2 High Commanders and 2 Chief Assassins. The only roles in which the Scarlet Crusade has one of are as follows:
Lordearon and Under/Capital City I feel should remain the capital of the Forsaken. That shouldn’t change and it seems that is the direction Blizz is taking with it. Because aside from that amphibious landing, Lordearon as a whole is equally as protected both from Silverpine and the WPL.
To Alterac though, yes. In this imaginary map in my head (and actual map I’ve spent way too much time on) I really see the Forsaken currently maxing out at like Tarren Mill, Durnhold, and Shadowfang to the south and Anderhol west. Also been buying into Beal’s idea of an Overcity for warlocks, necromancers, and the like out of Cear Darrow but kinda beyond the scope here.
If Renault’s appearance in Cata can’t have been canon, what reason is there to suppose any of that incarnation of the instance was?
The ranking stuff is entering some speculative ground, but at the time of Valroth’s brief appearance I am confident no one was actively planning to bring Whitemane back, that she was understood to be dead. The fact the previous, undead High Inquisitor is stashed in a wall right behind the current one as the Crusade’s dark secret suggests some significance to the title, as does the fact “High Inquisitor” slots right in with “High General” and “Grand Inquisitor.”
On the other hand admittedly there are definitely two Scarlet Commanders active at the same time, in different areas, stationed almost exactly like Whitemane and Valroth would have been if they were alive at the same time - one in the Monastery, and one in the Enclave.
Because we actually have confirmation that Renault died.
Others however? Not so much. Houndmaster Loksey for example, despite being a boss that could be killed over and over and over again, and there being quests to kill him, he was still alive when the Naxxramas patch dropped in Vanilla. His brother, Huntsman Leopold, stated when you talked with him that “Loksey couldn’t even take care of his own hounds, much less represent the Crusade, which is why he (Leopold) was sent instead of him (Loksey)”
So he was still very much alive despite being a killable boss in Vanilla, and he likely remained as a living boss until his death during the Cataclysm, because he was replaced by Houndmaster Braun when the dungeon was revamped in Mists of Pandaria.
Interrogator Vishas? Also a killable boss and the target of quests, but despite being ‘killed’ multiple times, he appeared as a challenger in the Brawler’s Guild.
And this not only applies to the Scarlet Monastery but also to other dungeons as well. For example, we kill Vanessa VanCleef in the Cataclysm revamp of the Deadmines, but despite ‘dying’ there multiple times and being the objective of quests to kill her. She’s still very much alive by the events of Legion when she joins the Uncrowned.
The general rule is that unless there’s a source that specifically states that an NPC is dead, that NPC should be considered alive until they are replaced, at which point unless they reappear later (as Vishas did), they are confirmed to be dead.
I think you can fairly interpret Leopold’s statement as alluding to Loksey’s death. But then yet again Marjhan and Dawnbringer discuss Renault as if he’s still alive in that same patch, so it’s up in the air.
As a nation Alterac is dead just like Lordaeron but the people reorganised in the Syndicate. I doubt Blizzard will do anything with them considering that the old world won’t be revamped again any time soon.
Because he doesn’t die until after Naxxramas is invaded by adventurers. Remember, the Corrupted Ashbringer needed to be found, in Naxxramas, by Darion Mograine who took it from his father, who was condemned to be a Death Knight.
I don’t know how I overlooked that. So it’s not even up in the air, he would have had to have still been alive at that point, even before the comic retcons to properly integrate Darion.
I believe there is a Horde flight point there so that should canonically put it in Horde hands. What’s left of Alterac City seems to be under Ogre control.
The problem I have with that is… why would the bulk of the general population, that is to say farmers, merchants and so on, take any interest in joining weird cultists, thieves and assassins ? Especially since the reason why the Syndicate was created at all is that these nobles had been exiled, so they had to start stealing in order to survive (that’s actually taken from the RPG, but when it comes to the Syndicate, the RPG content seems very consistent with what little we have in terms of properly canon information, so I’m using it to speculate anyway). The general population was never exiled though. Like… they should just be going about their everyday lives. They shouldn’t even really care about which landlord (if any) rules them, honestly.
So without any further detail, I guess the most likely explanation is that, as you said, they fled to either Stromgarde or Stormwind. But I feel like this should’ve been mentioned in the lore just like the few Lordaeronian survivors who fled to Stormwind are regularly referred to in the lore
(Loved your thread btw)
I don’t think we can discount Scarlet, Syndicate, and Ravenholt members however. Many folks suffering under war and destruction of their home turn to a number of groups who are willing to give them refuge. I just remembered too that a number of folks from Alterac also could have gone to Southshore - one of the next nearest safe towns from the kingdom, even Tarren Mill and Andorhol before they were Forsakenfied and Scourged, or even Hearthglen since the fall of Alterac and the rise of the Syndicate were all post Second War things rather than Third War.
With that, we all know the Scarlets fairly well, and they were large enough to hold Hearthglen, the Scarlet Monestary, some farms and forts in Tirisfal, and Tyr’s Hand. Suffice it to say, they had the resources to take in any remaining refuges and depending on when they joined, so long as they ascribe the the Crusades ideals. On top of any who were just living in Lordearon at the time who voluntarily joined after the Scourge.
The Syndicate took over farms, abandoned towns, sections of Stromgarde, and established their own camps. So they had at least some semblance of logistical cohesion that could support those who didn’t want to leave and instead stayed with these nobles who just ran the kingdom.
Raveholt is the safest of them and is a presumed Noble from Alterac. Its not a stretch to imagine he took in what few he could or chose to.
Otherwise, whatever Alterac refugees that went to Lordearon likely were then lumped under Lordearon refugees when they sought the relatively safety of Stormwind.