It’s ppl like this guy why Sub lost gouge garotte and poisons…
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I agree to a sense, but as stated, there are a LOT of buttons that even the “easy” classes have to hit in a given fight.
Take this champ for instance. I would venture to say that most people would put Frost DK’s in the top 5 of easy rotations. I don’t disagree. However, my point is that while I don’t have a necessarily difficult rotation to follow and have these miniscual windows to hit certain buttons, I make up that time saved into keeping my eyes on players, on objectives, on buffs/debuffs, on ally’s and their status, on my surroundings, etc.
Adding 2, 3, or 4 more skills to my rotation would inevitably take focus away from something else I was already doing. I am never “bored” when fighting. I ALWAYS have something going on.
Proof is in the pudding. Just go watch some “elite” pvp’ers on youtube like Bahjeera and even he forgets to use spells or forgets to do something. EVERYONE does. That’s because in a given fight, you are hitting 50 + buttons (not talking about unique spells…and also not counting mashing waiting for the CD to come off). 50 buttons to fight 1 person I am fine with. To add to that seems silly just for some rhetoric of “more buttons means me better than you…bwhahaha”.
If the dps rotations are to easy to perform under pressure that means a very skilled player has nothing to distinguish themselves from a brand new player that spent 5 minutes on icy-veins learning what order to press buttons.
Back in Wrath a few simple mistakes in the DPS rotation could mean up to a 30-50% drop in damage. This was really obvious in arena because lower caliber players did drastically less dps while having less time achieve to CC.
If you compare that to today everyone can do max dps pretty easily, and there isn’t enough CC in the game anymore to really outplay your opponents. Mage / Lock / Druid / Rogue / Spriest are the only examples I can think of that still have a decent CC kit compared to older xpacs, and even then they have had some pruning as well.
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my point is the OP wants classes harder to play. Why?
If you want something harder to play…might as well make life harder too…same, same.
My god just stop, you are wrong. Having harder rotations so people have a harder time focusing on other things is the point. This way we can separate our selves for being able to do them…
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Yeah but that’s what differs good and bad players from WoW. Good players are able to manage all of those things while having even more going on for them. This is why when Frost DK for example is really strong at top end while being a noob friendly spec it hurts the game.
There isn’t actually anything wrong for example with having a spec as simple as Frost DK - but each class at the least needs a complex spec to exist and be superior when mastered as a reward for that time invested.
Some specs do still function with complex rotations and more to manage as well in the game, feral druids are a good example imo. You still need all that awareness, and a rotation to manage, as well as having to worry about positioning, kiting, as well as getting your CC out at optimal times too. It’s nice to see a good feral play.
On the other hand no real difference between the best DK or the worst which sucks. Same reason in league where if you took Soraka in like S3 (pre any rework or something, forgot how they reworked her but she was braindead simple) and had her be the best support for example it would just bore people out of their minds since all you can do at that point is just ward well and focus on vision which sure is nice, but usually other more complex supports you still have to focus on those things and making cool plays (i.e thresh), and that just is more interesting overall to see good players do those things.
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If the dps rotations are to easy to perform under pressure that means a very skilled player has nothing to distinguish themselves from a brand new player that spent 5 minutes on icy-veins learning what order to press buttons.
You just proved my point. Skill in the game is SKILL. not ease of champion.
If I am on my frost DK and I help a friend who has ZERO pvp experience also get to my ilvl, I SHOULD win. Why? Cause I am more experienced. I have SKILL. He doesn’t.
Skill cap doesn’t have a ceiling. The more you practice, the more you min-max your potential, the better you are. That is the way the game was designed.
You have very poor reading and comprehension skills my friend. What you just quoted directly contradicts what you are saying. I don’t know what to tell you. Perhaps the concept is outside your brain’s ability to process it 
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I get your point. Champs like Lee Sin have a very high skill cap requirement because of the “skill-shots”. However, even a well played Lee Sin can lose to a Garen. Garen can spend his time juking and knowing when to go all in while Lee sin HAS to hit a skill shot. Even IF Lee Sin hits that Q, a good Garen (simple mechanics) can lose.
Ease of Champion doesn’t necessitate win/lose. If you are SKILLED in the game and something fits your playstyle…I say go for it.
I just get irked when people complain about “easy” rotation champs. To some people, Lee Sin is a cakewalk. But to others, it’s hard AF to pick up. Everyone has a different skill cap range that they are effective at. And it is my opinion that right now, the champs are in a good spot rotation wise. There are some that pander to the hardcore, and there are some that get newbies involved and liking the game.
If they made ALL classes the same difficulty of picking up and learning effectively, they’d get no new subs.
Learning how to be still, to really be still and let life happen - that stillness becomes a radiance.
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This line was absolute gold and I hope you know it made me genuinely laugh irl
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Nope, brain working fine.
People think mexicans are taking our jobs.
Others will say, “you lost that interview to an illegal immigrant with broken english as a Second language…who’s REALLY to blame”
It’s all in the eyes of the beholder. Look at this from a different viewpoint and not, “RAWR, me want meta harder to make kids cry to mommy and me dominate” Some people like an easier, casual playstyle. They DON’T want to have to eat 3 cups of sugar and slam 12 red bulls to be effective.
Right but what skill can you display on frost DK? You have a very basic dps rotation, and no other complex mechanics involved with your spec
Because of this, no matter how much experience you have on this spec the only situation you could really do anything different is knowing where to stand in arena and maybe just when to press your defensive CDs
Those concepts are so basic it leaves almost 0 room for you to actually be better than someone else
On the other hand if there were hundreds of extra mechanics to frost DK outside of just damage rotations that would be one thing (which is like WoTLK style wow simple yet elegant dps rotations). For ex in WoTLK a mage doing damage was just frostbolt icelance on a shattered target. Yet so many ways to set that up. Then you have to know how to kite properly, use barriers at the right time, set up your CC at the right time, cast properly etc. So many extra layers involved
Frost DK you’re just a melee spec whos only objective is literally just damage and nothing else involved. It is not possible for you to display skill in any way - and if your spec is only damage than the only thing that can show your skill has to be a more complex rotation
But at the end of the day super easy specs like Frost DK are still fine as a way for new players to learn but they just can’t be the superior specs at top end because then the gameplay is degenerate, no difference between a top of the line Blizzcon level dk and a gladiator one for example.
And again, there’s actually importance in having some specs being really easy and others being challenging. Frost DK doesn’t have to change - it just doesn’t have to be the best champ at high end. Your example with garen vs lee sin for example. In pro games, if you’re only seeing garens instead of lee sins, it just becomes so boring to watch because there is just not much you can even see displayed skill wise. It’s just a basic champion and the fundamentals of the game are already mastered by top players anyways so their skill is just held back.
That’s why I think instead for a DK, unholy just needs to be more complex and challenging so good players can shine at the top end - but frost is there for a barrier of entry. For my class, I think BM has always served very well in this regard as being a great starting point but then having MM in say WoTLK-MoP that were so much more complex to play, so that you would want to learn these after getting a hold of the basics in order to reward top players.
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I’m sure you don’t want a harder dps rotation because your 50 IQ wouldn’t be able to handle the complexity of adding a few extra buttons. Must be hard to grip and kick while u spam dots and Necrotic strike.
Also what do illegal immigrants have to do with WoW? Besides showing how ignorant and prejudiced you are.
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You laugh until Billy makes car sounds and kills you.
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Something this dk fails to mention is that if you’re caught out of position by 2-3 players in league, you are dead.
In wow arena you are forgiven for mispositioning 500+ times
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Ya this too, but this is why pacing is important in general because obviously with WoTLK WoW this mattered a lot.
WoTLK I think is just the best version for people to jump into and expanding on that type of thing since the complexities don’t entirely revolve on hardcore dps rotations just ones people can play around, but Cata/MoP is a good one too it’s just a different style. Those ones still make it so that the gap in damage from good/bad players mean a good team will easily be able to win vs a bad one.
Either way those directions are just much better into showing player skill than current versions.
Well, over my years of playing nearly every melee champ, I have picked up THESE skills:
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kicking/interupts. Knowing who’s casting what and how effective/ineffective it will be on your team is perimount. A new player only leveling with WQ’s probably never has to use that.
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on this champ in particular, when to spend my Runic power on Deathstrikes or Froststrikes. Using deathstrikes when not needed can be a massive DPS sink.
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When I switch to unholy, when to Necrotic strike and who to Necrotic strike.
Again, in a pvp situation, a new player probably doesn’t even have necrotic strike bound. And if he/she does, it’s not used hardly at all -
When to pop active’s. Just running in and popping Blood of the Enemy isn’t going to yield you profits. or any other essense active. Belt enchants…like when to run if you have that one…when to push someone away…
Those are just a few that a brand new player would not be able to grasp instantly or fully understand. Yes, after a week or two of binding those keys properly and practicing he/she’d be better…but that is a personal skill…AWARENESS. That is hard to teach.
Well for your example, that’s why Unholy is actually better for the more complex spec. More to manage. It still is much simpler to just smash necrotics than way before but that’s a different topic. Pet management and properly getting usage from Dark Transformation for example is a huge skill for Unholy DKs that you can always optimize better. This makes a huge difference for UhDK
Frost doesn’t really have that. Honestly the only good thing going on for frost is the choice between Death Strike and Frost Strike is actually a sacrifice lol, whereas for UhDK there’s no punishment for just only using Death Strike and not coil except like losing some Dark Transform uptime.
Still - again these are basic things most players are going to learn when first diving into WoW with any class/spec.
But there’s just so much more involved. So much more that can be the difference between just an entry level player who just gets what you listed down to the best of the best, and it’s what you’re missing out.
It’s ok for entry level specs to exist I entirely agree. They are very great at teaching you the basics but the game cannot just only be the basics. This is why LCS matches can’t just be Garen vs Garen.
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Belt enchants don’t work in arena. Also I’m pretty sure even a brand new player will have Necrotic Strike bound, it’s common sense.
Congrats on knowing that if your healer eats a full polymorph, or a lock casts a chaos bolt you might want to use a defensive or position yourself to run away. These are things even new players will understand after a few matches. What your saying is that after all your years of playing, you still play the game like someone who’s played arena for 2 weeks. Noted 
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