A lot of ferals rotation is completely luck based, now we have a tier set based on apex procs. The single target rotation is pray for apex procs or do no damage its insanely boring and not fun to compare logs with other ferals and they do 100k more dps than you because you got 10 less apex procs, please make feral less luck based.
5 Likes
5 minute 17second fight: 18 Apex prcs
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/xzJRC9dTHb4YV3DP?fight=34&type=damage-done&source=1&sourcebuffs=391882
5 minute 18 second fight: 18 Apex procs
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Qn86aDbX7xcL4gMf?fight=12&type=damage-done&source=3&sourcebuffs=391882
The great thing about Apex, assuming youâre maintaining near as close to 100% uptime as possible on Rip, is that it averages itself out.
People arenât getting 10 more Apex procs in a given fight of the same length, unless the person with -10 has some major gaps in Rip uptime
L take as usual, i have several logs proving the opposite and they absolutely can because there is no bad luck protection, 5:50 sprocketmonger kill i have 280 rip ticks and got 13 apex procs, other log 281 rip ticks 23 apex procs it is very much luck based
5 Likes
This is not even remotely true. Apex proc chance is not rppm, itâs a raw percentage, meaning it does not have any bad luck protection. Over an infinite fight length you can expect it to average out, but even the longest boss at ~10 minutes is nowhere near enough that. Not being rppm also means you can get two procs back to back (or at the same time, in aoe), meaning it is impossible to spend them.
Hereâs an example in which I had 342 rip ticks, at 6% that should yield ~20.5 apex procs yet I only had 10. Not only did I have 10, but on two occasions if I was even a second too slow on spending the proc, I wouldâve refreshed it and lost two of them: wcl/reports/GTXMCh3qaZQLHRrf?fight=10 (canât link it, gg)
Having some RNG in our rotation is not a bad thing - in fact I believe itâs instrumental in making the gameplay not feel boring. But at this point, feral is almost entirely rng - between convoke, omen of clarity, apex, sudden ambush, to the point where you have extremely little agency over your performance, if any at all.
3 Likes
Oh, so your 3 logs compared to the thousands out there. Got it! Talk about an L take lol
5:42 - 13 procs - 2.25 procs per minute - 1 every 27 ticks of Rip
(https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/xMbqpRGQwK73dHVz?fight=41&type=damage-done&source=11&sourcebuffs=391882)
5:15 - 12 procs - 2.28 procs per minute - 1 every 28 ticks of Rip
(https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/W2xD3Bzkftc7ZYva?fight=33&type=damage-done&source=17&sourcebuffs=391882)
5:34 - 17 procs - 3.09 procs per minute - 1 every 19 ticks of Rip
(https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/kZNDazW3fLJ7R2MP?fight=17&type=damage-done&source=1034&sourcebuffs=391882)
5:59 - 18 procs - 3 procs per minute - 1 every 18 ticks of Rip
(https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/qc8dT9jVBmHC6kyb?fight=38&type=damage-done&source=18&sourcebuffs=391882)
5:10 - 13 procs - 2.51 procs per minute - 1 every 24 ticks of Rip
(https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/qc8dT9jVBmHC6kyb?fight=38&type=damage-done&source=18&sourcebuffs=391882)
Where are all these 10+ apex proc variations at? Seems to average out around the 2.5 procs per minute for ST. Of the logs iâve pulled at random, the average is 1 proc every 23 ticks of rip with an average of +/- 15% on the tick rate.
Really making mountains out of mole hills here. Have you also gone through and compared your stacks of Winning Streak to your other logs and those of others?
Never said it was - itâs just easier to show that way. Because its chance is reset with each tick which can lead into:
But it doesnât make it impossible to spend them with a .75 second GCD.
Point being is: it does and will average out
- Two of the logs youâve linked are actually the same log
- You canât really average it out per minute since itâs based on how often rip ticks, which fluctuates based on haste - and every feral has a different amount.
- Mentioning Winning streak is ironic, because yes itâs part of the problem. We already have enough RNG - Winning Streak is even more RNG on top of Apex and everything else.
Of course you can find tons of logs all within the average, that doesnât mean there arenât plenty of logs that fluctuate with statistical significance, which frankly in my opinion shouldnât ever happen.
If you want more examples, hereâs an entire night of prog on Sprocket: wcl/reports/bpLPRM4c2BxyQNAG?type=auras&boss=3013&difficulty=5&source=4&ability=391882 (2273 rip ticks across the 12 pulls ~136 expected apex procs, 95 actual, 4 of which refreshes)
And to address your other comment, our GCDs are 1 second, not hasted. With my scrawny 15% haste rip ticks every 0.8s. Which means, getting a proc back to back DOES indeed make it impossible to spend.
Itâs one thing arguing about whether you like it or not, but youâre just straight up factually incorrect.
5 Likes
Must have forgot to actually copy the last one, but all the same
You can since its based on a 6% chance per tick. Like i said, it averages out, regardless of back to back procs and haste values or if it holds true and triggers every 25 seconds roughly
Its a 6% chance, not a 6% average
Its not ironic, it shows how theres more than simple apex procs determining difference in DPS.
Did they change this back? Or is that the lowest we can get it with haste? I recall specific melee getting .75 seconds.
Never said there arent any thant dont fluctuate. But it doesnt take away from the fact, over the course of the season, everyone is going to average out around the same. Great thing about averages.
Again, this depends entirely on how much haste you have. Rip ticks more often = less time between procs on average.
Regular GCDs are 1.5+haste, capped at 0.75. Energy specs have a baseline of 1 and are not modified by haste (except rogue or something idk)
Okay but who the hell cares if throughout the tier my luck will be averaged out? Am I supposed to clench my teeth when I get absolutely screwed two raid nights in a row, knowing that three months from now itâll be averaged out? This is such an asinine take. Itâs not fun having 0 agency in your gameplay - I can play perfectly 20 pulls in a row and be near the bottom of the meters because RNG willed so. Like I already said, Iâm not arguing against the RNG itself, but too much of our damage depends on it.
And hereâs your example: a night of prog on Sprocket: wcl/reports/bpLPRM4c2BxyQNAG?type=auras&boss=3013&difficulty=5&source=4&ability=391882
There are 2273 rip ticks across the 12 pulls, 136 expected apex procs, 95 actual, 4 of which refreshes. Thatâs 3.65 standard deviation away from the mean, which is a lot. I donât care if itâs going to âaverage outâ if we just do another thousand pulls, Iâm ready to press alt f4 after getting absolutely screwed for 2 hours. This is NOT fun.
4 Likes
Grizzle more like Grizz-L lmao
1 Like
This would remain true if it was a solid and flat 6%, but itâs not. Thus the âaveragesâ coming in to play here. Even with more ticks, you can end up with lower procs, and more procs with fewer ticks. Both based off of 6%
Averages
Ah thatâs where that number came from. I knew it was somewhere
The asenine take is thinking that 5% fluctuation is going to be the only thing determining if you down content or not.
Yeah I dunno what youâre pulling from, but itâs not popping up. Anyway onto the point:
Whatâs not fun? Not meeting an expected DPS? You canât actually do that, you know that right? lol What happens when you end up on the 3.65 ABOVE ? Alt F4 as well because itâs not fun when RNG does RNG things? If youâre not around the average, just quit because itâs not fun? Get real
Hey welcome back! Did you have a chance to go learn how to read logs yet? 
Brother even your own examples show how bad it can feel.
1 every 28 ticks vs 1 every 19 ticks is a straight up 50% difference, thatâs insane for something you have no control over.
2 Likes
And it averages out. Even using the OPs logs as an example, he averages out
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/vNm9wM8P4Gc6gYy7?fight=24&type=damage-done&source=58
Here heâs getting a proc once every 17 ticks. Didnât see him complaining about wanting to alt F4 here when heâs outside the standard deviation when itâs benefitting him. If youâre gonna accept the good, youâve gotta accept the bad.
It. Averages. Out.
Next weâre going to be complaining because two people with 35% Crit has someone who got 4 more Crits in.
If Iâm playing the same my damage should be consistent between pulls. Not a 50% swing on some abilities.
2 Likes
The damage does remain consistent. Even at 50% variance in Apex procs, it makes up for less than 5% of your overall damage.
That is consistent.
Look my man you can pull logs from wherever but you donât play the game so you donât experience the lows of getting unlucky with apex the entire point was its unfun to low roll considerign how much power is in apex you can say 5% damage but you donât realise how much 5% damage is in the mythic raiding scene its not irrlevant when dps checks are so prevelant so please go play the game get your tier set, maybe hop into a raid and when you get no apex procs tell me how you feel because right now youâre saying a whole lot of nothing.
3 Likes
Theyre not.
No raid group is pulling 90+ parses as a whole and hitting enrage timers because they missed out on 50 million damage over the course of 10 minutes
For clairification: the 5% variance of a single player isnt the determining factor for completing mythic raid encounters.
Give it up my friend. Youâre saying you donât enjoy the rng aspect of apex and heâs telling you that youâre wrong. Itâs just a dude with a burning need to be right that heâs beating up a strawman he created in your image.
Just ignore the dude and move on, he will continue to try to âwinâ discussions.
2 Likes
Talk about creating strawmans lol never said he was wrong for not liking the âRNG aspectâ of Apex procs.
I said he was wrong for claiming that you do no significant damage for being on the low end of RNG
If we upped his low 1 proc per 28 ticks to 1 proc per 17 ticks via:
He gains about 40 million damage, an increase of 5% overall damage. And this is assuming best case scenario where theres no overlap in the increased 16% DoT damage and AS happens to be on the boss during the extra 48 seconds of that buff.
So to reiterate, hes crying wolf when youre averaging 100% output, with 2.5% varying in either direction