feels miserable to play sometimes, too much CC types, remove triple DR CCs, first CC is full, second is half, third should be immune.
5 Likes
Nah just remove all ccs.
Whoever does more damage on details at the end of a 5 minute timer should win the arena match.
10 Likes
Too much mobility
WoW retail fanbabies are gonna get an aneurism over us suggesting we have SWTORâs resolve system which actually punished bad plays or let you just PLAY THE GAME in a group fight , essentially giving you precog if you ate 2 hard stuns back to back after it resolved.
Why?
Because AWC/Arenas is all guess what: Priest/Mage/Rogue/Feral
Classes with spammable CCâs who get to avoid many more CCâs than anyone else by either being in stealth or at 40 yards, or things like Phase Shift
And now they got training wheels of damage thresholds on sap/blind/poly. Why would they ever want other classes to have a chance to play the game.
2 Likes
Ah, a fellow shadowplay enjoyer
Need definitions. Is there too much âMicro-CCâ? YES, absolutely. WAY too much. Thatâs a result of the Mythic+ design.
CC as such? On the contrary â the âHard-CCâ nerfs achieved exactly the âPvEâ feel where a single, well-placed 3 sec CC can seal the game, giving little to no time to react, plan, position, set-up meaningful CC chains. The âNerf CCâ advocacy is just anti-MMO at this point. Itâs practically gaslighting anybody who has played for over 2 expansions and who knows WoW used to be a slower, more Chess like game for over 15 years. THATâS what we need to bring back, thatâs where the PvP-unique skill has ALWAYS been at. Anybody can copy a cookie-cutter build and learn to do damage. That means nothing. The goal for WoW PvPâers calling to save the niche is NOT for it to be turned into another MoBA-FPS hybrid. It almost sounds to me like yâall wanna turn WoW PvP into FFXIV PvP 
More players will end up quitting. That, WoW canât afford.
No bandaid will give healers more uptime is because 24/7 raid-boss level pseudo-burst and one or two well-timed micro CCâs leave no room for proactive OR reactive turns. It makes the game into a chaotic, one-sided FoTM party. BORING!!!
WoW PvP is simply too good to throw away like that! The way to achieve a lower barrier to entry and a higher skill cap is to do some pruning, Nerf mobility/utility/NPC/Micro-CC, better telegraph core abilities and make gearing, queue times and systems like MMR better. Perhaps more crucial than all of these, is creating better incentives and rewards to encourage long-term participation. Better communication, earlier testing, more frequent balancing and more calculated tuning could basically prevent ANY of the issues superficially complained about in this forum on a regular basis.
1 Like
Not letting more than one DK or Rogue on the same team in BGB would solve 50% of the gameâs CC.
Weâre killing the game with this one
1 Like
Again, we gotta be specific if weâre trying to get feedback across.
What is being pruned thatâs reducing skill? (Hint: Dragonflight S2 CC changes 
)
The blunt association of bloat with inherent mechanical complexity has no ground.
Burst rotations are really simple now, even though there are more buttons again.
Thatâs because classes have endless resources, usually spam the same one or few abilities in the burst window, and most of the âun-prunedâ abilities are utility or have been reworked into Micro-CC or otherwise instantly disruptive shenanigans.
As all of PvPâs problems these days â it comes from a design centered around Mythic+ and lacking PvP quality testing.
/signed
They cant because of the top 1% of arena players.
I donât know, they add stuff like the knock up on WW monks dragon punch via PvP talent, so they added recently a new PvP only micro cc.
But yes, precog is a bandaid. The reward for juking should be they donât have a kick anymore, not a micro window of cc immunity because everyoneâs got micro cc. Unfortunately, weâre too far down this rabbit hole to go back.
1 Like
Feel free to play swtor then nonr is forcing you into wow.
The game needs some cc pruning for sure, no proper pvper denies that, but alltogether with the CC pruning we need to reduce the mobility and defensive toolkit of quite a few speccs/classes.
Back in wod, even with less CC there were 1 minute long CC chains, even on AWC levels and it was way more fun gameplay wise.
It not the top 1% or the ammount of cc which keeps you at 1600, sorry to burst ypur bubble.
On the contrary - there should be more CC to make setups more meaningful, PVP is already PVE-like enough as it is. Just micro CC and zug zug till somedoby falls over.
Aye. I will grant the non-caster complaint though, that this cat-and-mouse trend moved caster specs to an instant spell model. And so, if every class in the game can burst almost instantaneously with very little setup, the only viable stops that remain and CCâs that are quick enough to use without risk of counterplay i.e. "Micro-CC"s. Once again, it comes from PvP being treated as a side-game and being left with the tri-seasonal breadcrums of Mythic+ design and tuning. This is even though PvP is what WoW does uniquely best.
TL;DR I agree, weâre way too far down to resolve any of this without major ground-up reworks of the entire system.
We may see some people flock to MoP Classic for PvP for ~1.5 year. Though I really enjoyed it back in the day, I wish to see those resourced invested in âRetailâ to re-create that level of participation long-term. Itâs probably easier said than done, like you said, because weâre already in these loops and an abrupt change would likely drag a lot of flak. What I would do is just give up WoD Classic altogether and announce a âWoW 2â where everybodyâs stuff moves to a better engine with servers that can actually support playing in Azeroth the world as an MMORPG. Iâve been advocating it since 2019 lol⊠Unfortunately, thinking about long-term benefits and things like fun just seems to elude big studios today.
Bring us back to
1 Charge
1 Blink
1 Blessing of Freedom
1 VANISH
1 bubble
1 Cocoon
1 Disengage
1 Deathgrip
1 frost nova root
1 bladestorm etc
Remove soft defensives like SoV and various other barriers, bring BACK hybrid healing since pure DPS heal much more literally doing nothing [Rogue, warrior, mage, rogue, demon hunter, rogue, lock, mage, rogue, etc. Did I include mage and Rogue?].
1 defensive, 1 bubble, 1 evasion, 1 die by the sword, 1 enraged regen, 1 ice block, 1 Pain Supression, etc.
Remove all stuns/fears 3s or less
Remove damage thresh on blind/sap/poly,
You will see alot more bad players and what we used to call âearly poppersâ get dunked on.
Way too many training wheels in PvP and dragged out games from someone failing 2 or 3 times.
Chess-like strategy is good.
Getting off-handedly locked out of being able to do anything at all for 12 seconds because the SS lobby saw you get stunned and somehow manage to remember to layer up is not good, and it isnât fun. A Ret hitting HoJ every time its up and still managing to get more value out of it than someone trying to be more careful isnât good, and it isnât fun.
Introduce vulnerability windows. Colossus Smash for all. Or layers of defense which can be peeled / refreshed, idk.
Anything is better than the mouthfeel of having no means of controlling your character, and then inevitably being slowed.
The degree of CC, both hard and micro, we have now isnât carefully planned, cautiously executed 4d chess. Its trogs hitting whatever lights up every time it lights up until they get lucky and youâve already used all your answers.
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YES Chess like Strategy is how WoW PvP has worked before Mythic+⊠Now itâs far more rock-paper-scissors because of Pseudo-burst, Micro-CC etc⊠It can feel like PvE and then AWC just trying to play at average MMRs learning a new class throughout the season. That should never be the case, same for oneshots. Players need to be able to learn and react at the most basic level and then naturally be able to progress to higher ranks if they are capable of integrating those skills.
The reason NO bandaid for healers will suffice is the one most DPS refuse to admit: Damage levels in the game are INSANE. Iâm done taking gaslighting about it. You used to be able to feel and determine when burst was being used. Now itâs just 24/7. It started in BfA S4. CDs just oneshotting with one or two 3-sec CCs should never be the case. I say nerfing Hard-CC in DF S2 only exacerbated this problem. The average player will find it more difficult to stop this relentless battering for a meaningful enough window to concoct a turn in their favor.
What I see in the past few years is a sudden, abrupt, extreme change in the way the game is played, and a bunch of people just accepting and making that the new status quo to play their gatekeeping pseudo-esteem games around. The fact in reality is that WoW loses players from these designs.
We who stick around have adapted to it, but MOST returning players just canât, so they give up.
Finally nerfing the sigil silence/fear thing from Dh was nice. Wish they did it in Df⊠Was 0 reason they needed an Incap / Sigil / 2 Stuns whilst doing unhealable dmg and unmatched movement speed.
This. I think pruning CC would be best served out of a mental win frame of mind, i.e. being in CC isnât fun so less of it = more fun.
But I donât think the pacing of the game needs to change because of it, I think less time in CC but weaker healing/personals for some things would be necessary. Or prune the overall CC but extend chains to make eating CC more critical.