No one is talking about retail, what are you even saying?
The arena tournaments started in TBC and WOTLK.
Sorry but your view as a era Andy has ruined your perspective lmao.
YOU think classes got ruined in TBC but they actually got better.
If era had arenas then it would be legit good, era is garbage because there is nothing competitive about it, which is why raids started doing speed clears to try and make something competitive.
There is nothing competitive about wsg because you aren’t on an even playing field, 1 of the druids will be better and 1 of the teams is willing to use more consumes, if you’re relying on those 2 things it’s already not competitive by nature.
I’m not saying that that’s not competitive, it’s competitive within itself but when you ask a wow player what competitive pvp is they aren’t going to say wsg unless they only play era like you guys do.
That’s because you haven’t experienced or done anything competitive in this game, your PVE in era isn’t competitive it has like 100% clear rates rofl, your pvp isn’t competitive because it isn’t arena.
You’re literally so beyond your scope of things you can’t even see the points being made.
Xfour atleast gets it.
It isn’t competitive because you don’t lose anything, you don’t win anything.
There is no ladder, you have no mmr, you have nothing on the line, there is no titles, it isn’t a competitive game mode.
It isn’t like arena where if you lose you could be knocked out of your title spot because you lost points.
Which is why I jokingly said show me your record. You have to use an addon to track that rofl.
Wsg isn’t competitive because it wasnt designed to be, you taking it super serious doesn’t make it competitive.
Imagine if they added some changes in like Xfour said, and they gave it a mmr or a ladder and you had a team and you won titles or something, then it would be competitive.
There is a reason arena became their e sport and not wsg.
You can have the last word, you’re blinded by our hate for me and can’t actually have a conversation, get your quick 1 liner in.
If you want to define competitiveness by rewards, sure. That isn’t the only way to see something as competitive. If you need MMR and rating to tell you how skillful someone is you’re not the player you think you are.
This is why I said you’re in a dadmade 18 hours a day farming pugs and dodging real teams. Real teams play less for their rank and won’t dodge because of HPH. They stand to gain bragging rights which sure is less tangible, but they are still playing FOR something as per your first point.
There used to be brackets before retail noobs like you demanded they be changed even though they’re not in the scene. You could easily farm an opposite factions top bracket premade into never queueing when you’re online. All because it’s an income of Honor and not a MMR rating doesn’t mean there’s zero stakes. You THINK they are because you THINK you know more than you do.
You need me to flex a record but you’re INCAPABLE of dueling me because you’re not involved with the game whatsoever. You played once in 2019 and probably cried about waiting for TBC arenas when you were farmed out of WSG and into AV. You have no characters on Era. You’re not even 60 on Anniversary. You’re a poser.
It doesn’t have to be intentionally designed competitively to be competitive. Mario 64 wasn’t designed for competitive speedrunning, but it’s still a wildly popular category. You are not the arbiter of good game design.
Then I would farm you and your stack soloqueue because you think roofing is safespotting lmfao.
Arena wasn’t immediately a esport when TBC came out. Arguably was barely an esport in Wrath. As far as esports go it’s super niche with little to no crossover. Arena will never be counter-strike or DOTA. WSG players aren’t asking WSG to be that either. This is just super insecure cope from you.
You’re not interested in conversations. You’re scared by the fact that me and Xfour know more about the game than you, that’s why you’re doing this cope about it not being competitive because you know you’re dog.
(if youre gonna reply ignore pve part i just don’t care about it much tbh - skip to second comment )
Okay I think I can perhaps help explain the Era mindset of competitiveness a bit better.
Clearing the raid is always assumed, in pve they generally compete on two aspects: parsing and clear times. And since everyone that is competing has bis gear and good raids it now becomes all about perfecting the gameplay - the climb from parsing 95 to 99 to 100s is far longer than to get to 95s overall.
Others enjoy trying to clear naxx faster and faster - some are at like 45 min now.
I bet if any retail players came into Era and started to compete, the top ones would find their way to the top, and the average would still be average. It isn’t easier or harder - but it is competitive versus players in a way that doesn’t reward more time, it really is down to skill. This is pve.
But at least I care more about pvp so I think this point is interesting:
Since the community of pvp players in Era is pretty small and there are quite a few good players, you quite often get WSG games in which both sides have enough good players that it becomes ultra competitive and one can just feel the insane skill cap. There are also plenty of wargames that happen.
On Era the good players that queue are there only to play WSG and win. There’s no reward besides winning and the enjoyment - and losing is also fun if the game was really good.
Bragging rights, pride, joy, honor, the love of the fight. There is so much to be gained from a good pvp game even without MMR, the issue is that it is really hard to get good games at scale.
Like I think I am a okay WSG player, but if there were tons of new players that poured in, the pros that could be created from the next generation would be doing plays and at a level that we are not even imagining. The meta has barely been scratched - there is so much to be discovered.
You see wow players in 2020, sod, som, today and most hph premades just running around like headless chickens - they have no idea the depth of the game they are playing and just focused on the reward. Because this game lost almost all its pvp players - there needs to be marketing to bring a new generation of them in.
Now I do agree with you that MMR and a ladder is important because it allows players to actually see their skill improve and for easy matchmaking versus similar skilled players.
However, I would caution against saying the lack of matchmaking system is the same as a the lack of a really good competitive game. Chess is good in-itself, MMR is just a system added ontop of it. WSG is the same.
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