Rearranging and Removing Portals

[Macällän-bronzebeard (Macällän)]

[Hardwire-velen (Hardwire)]

But flying (especially upgraded) did a lot more to shrink the size of the world than portals ever did.

Where I would argue that flying allowed them to make a larger world - just look at the sheer scale of Northrend - and that the removal/reduction of flying was to allow them to make smaller, far more cramped zones. They then mitigated player inconvenience by giving us an instant teleport to the nearest flight master on a 5 minute CD, and putting half a dozen flight masters in zones a fraction of the size we had before the “flying is bad for the game” meme started.

So, in essence, removal of flying shrunk the world more than the addition of flying did.

[Spanko-kiljaeden (Spanko)]

Yeah, I am a horde main but holy cow, playing alliance without that portal for holiday events, or even any content up north there is going to be absurdly annoying to get to.

[Valdriann-area-52]

Yup. Thinking I’m done. Kaivax just responded to another thread, while this (the one he made) sits at 6k+ responses with no feedback from another Blue.

Sucks, but I’m done supporting this company, how they treat their players, and their design philosophies.

[Vicktoria-area-52 (Vicktoria)]

[Nillah-uldaman (Nillah)]

Friendly reminder that we started a discussion about other MMOs over here, if anyone’s interested.

Burnt out on WoW? Looking for another MMO to fill the void?

You’ve come to the right place! Some of us in general discussion were talking about some of the other top successful MMOs on the market, and figured discussion would go better in a more appropriate location(before we were forcibly put into one). Not sure how to get the topic started, but I can answer any questions about Final Fantasy 14 or to a lesser extent, Elder Scrolls Online. Both games are very successful at the moment and have already had a large influx of former WoW players migrating to…

[Spanko-kiljaeden (Spanko)]

I saw that as well, but I don’t think Kaivax can post here without them discussing this first. It’s not a change that can be taken lightly by them I guess

[Gladiatrix-draenor]

100th time? I’ve been playing consistently since BC so try 10,000th time. Your world seems huge to me regardless of the portals because I played each step of the way. WE are paying YOU for the game. Why don’t you listen to us? There’s no reason to remove the portals… ever. I rolled with it when you stopped allowing flying at max level (WoD) and thought that wasn’t too bad of an idea. But seriously, forcing us long time players who have been your core support through the WoD and now BfA debacles to deal with this nonsense is stupid on your part. Guess who is farming old content again?? points to self… the last time I was doing that was back in WoD with nothing to do. Now same thing, nothing to do. How can you release such a great expansion like Legion, with seemingly endless things to do, and crap out this BfA piece of trash and then revoke my ability to easily farm old content on multiple characters in a timely manner? Your coming patches better be jam packed full of new islands (not expeditions), quest chains, FISHING CONTENT!!! and dungeons… Or this is another WoD bust. Taking the portals away at this point is seriously a slap in the face to us old players. Guess we’re all gonna be hanging out in your Vanilla version before long. Until you get it through your skulls that we want a variety of content, as Legion delivered.

[Runty-queldorei]

I admit I don’t like the idea of removing all the portals and giving a limited number in a single location. That being said, I can understand some “clean up” of the portals. BUT… the extent of the “clean up” seems to be more than just “clean up” and more along the lines of “eliminate as many portals as possible to burden players with travel time”

As far as the portals go (still active but only in Stormwind):
Boralus: At least this was kept intact.
Stormshield: Reasonable assuming you keep your Garrision HS.
Azsuna: Odd location, but again OK if you keep your Dalaran HS.
Dalaran, Crystalsong Forest: Reasonable.
Shattrath: Reasonable. Centrally located. No need to portal at Dark Portal
Paw’don Village: Moved portal location.
Exodar: Another portal relocation.

Portals removed which doesn’t necessarily make sense:
Shine(s) or Seven Stars / Two Moons - Centrally located. Should be one somewhere.
Caverns of Time: Was more of a specialty one. These have never usually been removed. Why now?
Darnassus / Ironforge: Major city portals never have been removed and yet only Ironforge portal is in Boralus. And what about a Darnassus portal for toons under 110? Now they have to go from Shattrath or Dalaran to SW just to get to Darnassus? Why the sudden extra work? Did the Horde have portals to Thunder Bluff / Undercity / Silvermoon removed as well??

Not sure what the devs were thinking. This “clean up” goes well beyond any portal removals from expansions in the past. It sure wasn’t in line with what had been done before. I thought the idea was to err on the side of not being excessive, not on the side of being way too overly excessive. Broke their own rules and credos.

[Shayis-sentinels]

Where I would argue that flying allowed them to make a larger world - just look at the sheer scale of Northrend - and that the removal/reduction of flying was to allow them to make smaller, far more cramped zones. They then mitigated player inconvenience by giving us an instant teleport to the nearest flight master on a 5 minute CD, and putting half a dozen flight masters in zones a fraction of the size we had before the “flying is bad for the game” meme started.

So, in essence, removal of flying shrunk the world more than the addition of flying did.

I can see where your coming from. I don’t think flying is bad for the game. I enjoy it. But the time to travel from point A to point B via flying vs. a ground mount as a general rule is shorter. I guess what I was trying to say it ended up ‘feeling’ smaller. Even if the actual map size itself was unchanged.

But if we look at the current state of the game? You can fly in outland and northrend much sooner than you initially could. Part of that is due to how the zones scale now. But it’s far easier to get about from place to place as a result and the zones by extension ‘feel’ a bit smaller now when you can fly from the off. But like portals? Who cares if someone can fly earlier while leveling an alt in old content?

[Gladiatrix-draenor]

I totally agree the cleanup of portals was needed, certainly in Org for us Hordies. However, removing the portals is uncalled for… resoundingly as they can see from these comments. I guess they want to throw the entire company down the toilet because they are only hurting sales at this point.

[Hardwire-velen (Hardwire)]

You can fly in outland and northrend much sooner than you initially could. Part of that is due to how the zones scale now. But it’s far easier to get about from place to place as a result and the zones by extension ‘feel’ a bit smaller now when you can fly from the off.

I suppose in some ways, yes? But if I’m in those zones questing, by necessity I’m spending most of my time on the ground, doing the quests. I don’t think it’s really a bad thing if players have less empty downtime spent on flight paths getting from hub to hub.

I know some will argue “well, back in my day you had to slog your way there on foot, fighting mobs all the way.” But there are also a lot of breadcrumb quests in game that consist of “here, get on this flight path and I will send you to your next destination”, and if that’s a valid way to get from A to B, then flying under your own power should be as well, even for new players doing the content for the first time.

[Zeerionjax-argent-dawn (Zeerionjax)]

This is all about them controlling how and where we travel, and little else.

More and more, WOW is a game on rails, playing how they want us to play, directing us in the way they want it to be.

From the gating of flight to these portals to what was called “directed discovery”, bit by bit the playerbase is being led around by the nose, “this is how we want you to play”

OF COURSE we are being funnelled into rooms, that way what we do and where we go can be controlled and directed, according to what THEY see “is fun and what isnt fun”

They want you to go where they want you to, how they want, where they want, in the manner they want, which explains to a great degree their sudden distaste for flight. …it has zero to do with anything other than their desire to control the player experience at a base level.

On your flying mount you control what you do…not them. You do as YOU wish, not what they want you to do.

“We will tell you what fun is and what is not, you will play as we want you to”

In every sense of the word, this entire exercise from WOD till now has been for one main goal and one main imperative, structured play according to the devs wishes and “vision”

Blizzard hates flight because it is uncontrolled and undirected, flight paths have set routes and again, you can be funnelled into them to do the content they want you to do.

They send you where they want you to go, see what they have created in a manner they want …somewhere along the way WOW ( not that it was ever a sandbox ) became or is being turned into a “directed exercise” along preset paths.

Two sets of kids:

One playing a game of football with specific rules and strategies - directed, managed.

The other is a wild screaming bunch of kids in a game of kickball, with no rules save their own.

WOW is that first group.

Every single thing is directed and managed…but you tell me who is having more fun?

The first group …or the second?

That, folks, is at the heart of all these changes.

Thats why people are fed up…at a core aspect of humanity, we rebel against a straitjacketed approach, people dont like and dont want a play experience that is - to use a term from a mate of mine yesterday - “claustrophobic and restrictive”

Every game has rules, we know that…but when a game becomes more of an exercise in being led around by the nose and their every movement according to someone elses structure, thats when they feel limited, hamstrung.

Play is to a great extent uncontrolled and spontaneous, chaotic in nature. The more complex a civilisation, the more simple the play,

Directed play is the complete antithesis, bound by invisible ropes, rules, restrictions, limitations…no one likes to be placed on rails and told to go where others want you to go.

No one.

That isnt play.

That, to an extent, is like being in a maze with set lights telling you where to go, rather than you working it out for yourself.

WOD was the beginning, where the wishes of the devs and designers became the principles in how the game was created…rather than to the desires and happiness of those who were playing it.

The ones for whom Azeroth was created.

Us.

Remember that Blue post who told us it was their game and we were “invited guests” along for the ride?

Thats why.

Thats where that joke meme came from “fun was detected, fun was nerfed”

Every single day, every single expac, WOW is becoming more and more to the devs vision of what fun should be…at the expense of the people for whom the game was originally made.

Agree with me or not, doesnt matter in the end.

The next time you go ingame, note how many choices you have, how much control you have over what you do and and how much you dont…then think on how many choices have been removed.

Then ask yourself why.

Over to you.

QFT!!

Semper Fi!

[Brahmina-khadgar (Brahmina)]

Yeah, I boggle at seeing posters yelling at other posters over “why are you wasting time complaining about something so minor? There are glaring problems you should be worrying about!” Why are they angry at posters , instead of demanding of the devs “why did you prioritize removing portals, when you should have been doing something that would help the game?”

Apparently, and I’m only guessing, the devs think that removing/moving portals helps the game in some way. (?maybe?yes?no?) And the folks who are defending this think the devs must know what they’re doing. (?maybe?yes?no?) Honestly, I don’t accept the explanation given by Kaivax at face value either, but I’m not going to blame the messenger.

I still feel more ways to get around this very sprawling game will equal more players doing more things. Limiting travel options will just lead to fewer players doing fewer things. That’s how it seems to me, anyway.

[Stroopwafel-thrall]

honestly wouldn’t be surprised if they said ‘we’re pruning your hearth stones!’ in a later patch, because the world is big.

[Solace-anetheron]

I keep checking back periodically to see if that one designer with his stubborn “big ideas” at Blizzard finally relented and listened to the community that pays their bills.

Still nope.

Meanwhile League of Legends comes out with a detailed blog post about how they’re changing their ranked mode in accordance to player feedback. Must be nice to have designers listen to feedback AND communicate directly.

[Hardwire-velen (Hardwire)]

Oh, I don’t blame Kaivax; he was clearly posting what he was told to post. (I blame Bornakk a little for falling into using troll tactics like “should every class have teleports like a mage?”) But you can’t deny that the posters yelling at other posters for not complaining about the “right” things are definitely aiming at the wrong targets…assuming they believe what they say about focusing on “bigger issues.”

[Jose-blackwater-raiders (Jose)]

(I blame Bornakk a little for falling into using troll tactics like “should every class have teleports like a mage?”)

Queue the; “I’m just asking questions!” rhetoric

[Hardwire-velen (Hardwire)]

honestly wouldn’t be surprised if they said ‘we’re pruning your hearth stones!’ in a later patch, because the world is big.

They don’t want our bags to be cluttered with hearthstones, obviously.

Here, take these other teleport objects that have to be gained via rep, questing, or large amounts of gold, and clutter up your bags with them, instead.

[Vicktoria-area-52 (Vicktoria)]

Preach gets it