DH is designed in to a corner atm, and outside of a major rework, which wont happen in a patch, there doesn’t seem to be much way around the fact that blade dance isnt a button we will press outside of fringe cases.
They will have to gut the venthyr spec so we just cant use it or radically change the NF legendary.
So a set bonus that focuses on eyebeam and kills off blade dance for SL is the best solution we have until 10.0.
But if you change it as the OP suggested, that play would have stood no chance of out DPSing you playing a BD build. The purposed changes would just cement the fact we will be playing the Vent Eye Beam build and nothing else.
I would be fine with some changes the benefit both play styles but they first need to balance the covenant legendary items or they will never have a level base to begin with.
That is very fair.
balancing the covenant legendary items would be a lovely solution, I don’t have any actual suggestions as to what to go with to do so. I am cool having Venth single target crush on a few fights, and Night fae BD slam on more aoe fights. With the numbers I had I think the difference in boss damage when going AOE makes you more likely to get a kill if you pick the playstyle that does less overall and doesn’t utilize the new tier set, which feels bad. If they don’t change the tier set’s abilities hopefully I am wrong and with a tuning pass the numbers change to in favor of it.
I am afraid that the current set would need to be a significant buff to compete with Venth and then be unreasonable in AOE. But as long as it is right to utilize the set and it is fun to play with I will be happy.
at this point the only thing they could do to bring other covenants anywhere close to venth is a set bonus that focuses on immolation…
An idea for set bonus as stated by Sokkii could be more focused on Immolation. I feel it could have some good interactions that can benefit all playstyles without overdoing Venth/Agony.
2p Set: Casting Immolation aura empowers your next eye beam (works for all builds whether BF/CoH or BD/DS or Momo/Ess) and while immolation is active you gain “X” fury for every target hit.
4p Set: Casting BD/DS or every 4th Chaos Strike/Annihilation extends Immolation Aura’s duration by 1 second.
Im trying to figure in utility for all specs for natural QoL improvements with a steady fury gain and also adding some extra damage that shouldnt be considered to overpowered for one playstyle over the next. As seeing all builds use a form of Immolation Aura why not make it beneficial in the set?
After the reworks that numerous classes have received, it’s crucial that Havoc also receives one of these reworks. The current tier set is exceptionally underwhelming and has little to no synergy with our current BiS performing Venthyr build. It will feel clunky and genuinely bad to play in 9.2 without a rework. Tier sets are designed to be fun and engaging, not deter you from playing the spec altogether.
How is it acceptable that a class such as Arms warrior, whose original tier bonus was actually strong, receives a full rework but the problematic set for DH has yet to receive any feedback from the Devs on this forum or through the PTR? It’s incredibly frustrating, and it appears that the Dev’s simply do not care about the state of Havoc since 9.0. Our class has the least amount of gameplay interactions of any spec. There needs to be some attention given to rework this tier bonus, based on the excellent feedback on this forum. Almost all of the proposed reworks provided here, are better alternatives to our current 4-set bonus.
Please read this forum, and understand that the DH community is asking for a NEEDED rework. Obviously the capability is there, after seeing how many classes got reworks yesterday that honestly, weren’t entirely necessary outside of the Resto Shaman one. DH should be top priority for a rework next PTR build, or its clear the Dev’s are not utilizing the feedback provided on this forum.
Current sims with tier set and Venthyr use agony and chaos theory which beats out agony+dgb per DH Discord.
Full pinned comment from DH Disc for reference:
Agony Gaze + Chaos Theory is better than Agony Gaze + Darkglare at the moment The Havoc Tier Set essentially enables this combo to work The crazy thing is that the DGB sim had gems, and the CT sim does not
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/efTfuYdauVGDj4GQCQDECZ
I’m not saying this invalidates any tuning or reworks neeed because I still think the set should’ve been around throw glaive imo, but at least it looks like it might work with venthyr which was a huge concern for people.
CT always simmed the highest which is the problem since the sim doesn’t account for bad RNG, or not having it during a needed burst window.
I mean couldn’t you say the same about DGB sims since it is also rng based? Wouldn’t that make them semi comparable in that regard.
For context this is massively subject to tuning and is only roughly 200 DPS over a non-DGB build requiring an exceptional amount of extra equipment to even make it viable. You’re not even using Blade Dance to Blade Dance. You’re just fishing for Chaotic Blades procs. From everything I’ve heard this style of play was largely disliked back in Castle Nathria.
It’s not even that strong on cleave, either. It’s exceptionally underwhelming.
Yeah I’m more here to post said info from dh disc since it seems often times forum users don’t see that stuff, so extra context is appreciated!
Yes, which sucks. My only hope is that somehow our CA legendary doubles the AG Sinful Brand time by counting the Fel Davastation as a “2nd Eye Beam.” This would fix a lot of rng issues and still give us some good synergy between the legendaries and tier set.
While I haven’t actually tested it on ptr, in torghast fel devestation does count towards increasing the time on sinful brand so I’m fairly certain it would with the legendary as well given its the same as the torghast power.
I hope this is the case and proves to be true when it’s testable on PTR. It won’t be the highest simming combo, but for me personally, a non rng CA/AG build with the tier set would be perfectly fine lol
Honestly the Blade Dance idea is good, but with this current tier set bonus you are forcing DH to play 1 talent tree spec and that 1 spec only… Essence Break again become useless, even unbound chaos dont seem to be useless anymore. so 2 talents in the talent tree are forced to pick blade dance related talents. there are no other options because your tier set buffs those that skill and only that skill.
Don’t most tier sets for classes “force” you into a certain build for optimal play? I’m not saying our set isn’t bland and not well thought out, but I just don’t really understand the forced play style argument.
That’s how tier sets were designed, to empower a certain playstyle/build. And that’s why the tier sets changed from tier to tier. And as the DH meta has stood so far, it hasn’t utilized BD/FB this whole xpac and locked us in to other playstyles that were very boring and excessively repetitive with generator spam and 1 spender dumping. I for one, welcome the tier set and look forward to it, but I do feel that it has some conflicts with given its no longer about a talent build, but covenant conflict as well. They overdo themselves on systems that ultimately seem to be a failure in the long run (this being covenants). Remove covenants from the equation, and there wouldn’t be a fuss about this tier set bonus, but that’s not the case so the problem isn’t with the tier so much as how to remedy covenant legendaries to be more balanced across the board.
so many reworks and no havoc notes
I am very worried
I am in complete agreement with this post and support Atrayen’s suggestions. The current set bonuses targeted around Blade Dance are beyond underwhelming. Eye beam has been the focus of most builds this expansions, not blade dance (aside from momentum builds). Decisions made by Blizzard concerning Havoc demon hunter playstyles this expansion have frequently caused me to wonder if anyone on the blizzard team actually plays havoc DH. How can the team create tier set bonuses that are SO damn out of touch with the way the class is played now? Changes made from the start of Shadowlands have destroyed alot of the fun associated with playing this class/spec. Please rework the set bonus to focus more on eye beam, otherwise there is no real need to even use this tier set beyond the stat increases. What fun is that?
Just wanted to say I really liked your posts focus on Morale. I’ve played this game since Vanilla beta. Have played most classes, but once I played DH in Legion, I have had no interest in playing any other class. Unfortunately, the changes made to DH over time and for Shadowlands specifically have been so devastating to the Havoc spec, that my interest and enjoyment level for wow has seriously waned to point where I can barely convince my self to raid log any more. I’ve been so disappointed with what Bliz has done to Havoc that I have little to no morale left. So, you are spot on when you say listening to the DH community and acting on our feedback would be a HUGE morale booster.