What the actual hell is this response ^
Anywho RDF at least 1-79 would be beneficial for the game. Period.
Thatās how dependent youāve become on one tool speaking. In a classic game like WoW there are other solutions worth discussing. Blizzards LFG tool was a grwat idea except it had one terrible flaw. It relies on server population to function properly. Take a moment to think about thatā¦
ā¦ if LFG has issues forming groups, (because lack of population) then its fair to assume that many would be impacted by lomg queue times in RDF as well.
This leads me to believe Blizzard considered this and why they went the route of LFG and why they havenāt added any further comments on the topic as a whole.
As for my German comment: it was only to make a point that a popular attack isnāt always the best course of action, (as Iāve demonstrated above).
Even if the LFG Tool was cross realm like it should it would still be worse for pugging dungeons than RDF.
If you think all of those things arenāt already abundantly present without RDF, youāre clearly not playing Wrath Classic.
I agree add RDF with cross realm
We donāt have the data nor the evidence to make such claim. We canāt admit nor deny that the introduction of match-making systems led to the deterioration of online gaming communities. Studies suggest that online socialization is very important and shouldnāt be underestimated. I played a couple of MMORPGs prior to WoW, comparing the social experience from those games to those that I played afterwards that had match-making systems, I can tell you -in my personal opinion at least- that the social experience was richer in those without those systems.
More recent MMOs that Iāve played, PSO2 and Tower of Fantasy. PSO2 didnāt have match-making mechanics for emergency alerts, ToF does: the social experience was way richer in PSO2 than in ToF.
We would have to collect more data before making generalizations.
The answer to those questions is that Iām a fast type-writer (should be somewhere around 180 to 200 per minute) and Iāve always tried my best to have conversations. I stopped playing consistenly back in 2011, after Cataclysm went live. I ignore if the interactions changed over the course of the years, but when I tried them again by the end of WoD, beginning of Legion, people wouldnāt answer any questions nor greet back.
I havenāt touched retail ever since, so I canāt make fair comparisons. I only speak based on my experience, which seems to be similar to others. Without data, we canāt make any objective claim to this point.
There have been studies showing that repeated exposure to the same stimulus creates less endorphins. That is what has been happening with online gaming over the years. In order to promote healthy social interaction, you need to have a stimulus. For many of the early years of WOW that stimulus could be the new experience of an MMORPG. I bet even today if you met a new player, you would be much more inclined to have a conversation with them. Most players arenāt experiencing an MMORPG for the first time anymore, so in order to have a healthy conversation with them they, or you, need to provide a stimulus (such as subject all parties enjoy chatting about).
This is why I feel that those who think RDF impacts the social aspect of the game are wrong. In the past, you could rely on the new MMO/online experience to provide enough endorphins to make chatting enjoyable, but now it usually isnāt enough. If you want to have a healthy social interaction, the solution is to provide an interesting topic to chat about, not to blame a tool that put the group together. Thereās only one way to prove this though - to do it yourself. I have been doing this for years and regularly have great chats in even what many consider very toxic games.
I want to circle back to the main point of this topic though. I want RDF brought back because it provides an option for players who are struggling to find groups. I have struggled to put together groups on my server, so I know the problem exists to some extent.
Or maybe those games without match making systems prior to WoW were simply different games regardless of systems like RDF.
Dungeons in WoW were from launch of vanilla an inherently new idea. Instances that were designed as puggable fire and forget content was a very new idea at the time. RDF didnāt create that concept the mere design of dungeons did. RDF just supported it, like CRBGās did for battle grounds.
Sorry for pointing it out, but this is such a weak claim, because this could be applied to everything we do, and the online gaming industry keeps growing. It would also apply to those that support RDF because they would repeat the same dungeons over and over until they stop being satisfying. In that regard, not having RDF is beneficial for it delays that endorphin drop. All of the studies Iāve read indicate that being social, even if it is online, releases dopamine and other beneficial hormones. Thereās a particual study that I read that concluded that online socialization is beneficial for the emotional well-being of the participants. The most prominent author I can think of right now, is Dr. Rachel Kowert.
That being said, being social is beneficial and many people support that. RDF removes the incentive to engage in social interactions. Like I said, this isnāt conclusive, but if a former CEO who had access to the data says so, Iāll believe him more.
That leaves aside so many things that should be put into consideration, like commonalities, socio-cultural backgrounds, personal interests, the mood a person is in during the interaction, etc. Itās been proven how the introduction of new technologies and systems have changed the way we humans interact with each other. Take a look at the dating statistics before and after the creation of online applications and websites.
Thatās not even remotely a good suggestion, because individuals are biased by nature. Thatās why scientists and researchers conduct their studies using groups; what works for one may not necessarily work for others.
This topic is about having server-based, non-cross-realm RDF. But a solution to a problem (or some problems) by disregarding the possible and known consequences is not wise. Where Iām from we say that sometimes the remedy is worse than the malady. Iām not denying that forming groups is a big issue in low population servers.
If we evaluate the OPās suggestion by using mathematical models applied to distribution, it wouldnāt help much small servers, because you would need a considerable pool of players to choose from to make it work efficiently.
Yet in RDF i am still socializing with 4 other peopleā¦
And Iād believe blizzard more if their claims didnāt contradict actual game play and they werenāt implementing things like a bad LFG Tool which has the same issues they claim RDF creates.
learn to comprehend comments. it doesnt matter which way he thinks IT SHOULD BE, its not how it works. making comments like that is just ridiculous and ignorant. and you being insulting is just proof of your toxic attitude.
It does apply to all aspects of life. Running the same dungeons over and over does make them feel less rewarding and less entertaining, but so does questing. People want a viable option to be able to mix questing and dungeons. The current tool is not providing an effective and efficient enough method to put groups together to run dungeons for some people. No one is advocating to remove the ability of pre-forming groups. I just want an option to help those struggling to put dungeon groups together.
I never said providing a decent conversation stimulus doesnāt take some effort, but if youāre interested in social interactions, I assume youāre willing to put forth the effort. Itās not right clicking someoneās name from the LFG bulletin board and clicking invite that provides a reason to talk with someone. So what is it?
Iāve seen so many posts about how RDF ruins the social experience, but as soon as I suggest trying to put some effort into creating social interactions, no one wants to actually try. How can you say you want social interactions, but then say putting in the effort to create social interactions is a bad suggestion?
Look at the conversation weāre having about it right now. Even though we may be on opposite sides, itās a great interaction from two people who both put forward the effort. I donāt credit lack of a random forum group creator, I credit you for putting the effort into it.
Truthfully, I think we want the same thing - a great community in a game we love. I just donāt agree that RDF is the catalyst for players not putting effort into social interactions. I think denying players who are struggling to put groups together for dungeons a means of putting groups together does more social damage to the community.
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If we had RDF and I tried to make a group for a dungeon manually, by talking to people individually or advertising in LFG, 100% guaranteed Iād get replies like āif I wanted to run a dungeon Iād queue in RDFā. Easy bet.
Heck yeah it does. RDF for 1-70 ONLY.
This is complete nonsensical, emotional drivel. Show me on the teddy bear where the bad party member touched you on the internet.
Just ā¦ no
Yes if you were just trying to pug to say knock out daily you would.
If you were actually trying to do something that benefited from pre forming a group you wouldnāt.
And thatās fine, people who just want to knock out a quick dungeon are not looking to be your BFF anyways.
And is that scenario worse to you than messaging someone who says āsorry, Iām not in the mood to run a dungeon right nowā? Youāll get people who prefer using RDF for dungeons, just like you already have people who donāt run dungeons at all. How is someone telling you they run dungeons with the RDF a more negative social experience then someone telling you they donāt like running dungeons at all?
Or someone like myself who is just not going to log in as much when they donāt have the emotional/mental bandwidth to bother with the LFG tool? I cannot imagine I am the only person who dislikes the LFG experience enough that sometimes they would rather not play/not run dungeons, than use it.
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The LFG Tool provides the same end result as RDF but is pretty much worse to use in every way.
Perhaps I misunderstood something along the way, Iāve mentioned before that English is not my first language. I thought what you said about trying it for yourself was meant directly at me, but after your reply, I get that you implied anyone. Am I correct?
Based on what Iāve read and heard Blizzard say is that LFG is a message board that is there to assist in the group formation, it was never meant to form groups for you. Iāve seen so many people say on the forums āI queued for 3 hours,ā it isnāt a queue, it isnāt first come first served scenario. In that sense, it should be sufficient, because it wasnāt meant to be the primary option.
In my opinion, sending a group invite without having been asked first, I consider it to be rude to some degree, except if I listed myself on the board, then thereās a stimulus and the group invite is the response. I absolutely agree with you when you say that socializing does require effort, and the result has the potential to be satisfying and rewarding.
Itās been mentioned that the first interaction that you have with someone determines at a subconscious level -or conscious one- how the interaction will be, thatās why flight attendants greet you when you board on the plane, to determine how helpful or reliable you could be in case of an emergency (among other reasons). If I advertise in the LFG channel, and I get two responses, one being āinvā and the other being āI just hit 80, do you mind?ā I know what to expect from the person behind the second one, just because they put more effort into it; I usually bring the latter, but thatās just me.
RDF removes the need for that first interaction. Social awkwardness is real, but without exposure, without incentives, chances are that people like that wonāt change, and I donāt think having a system that bypasses that and removes the need for that incentive is helpful on a more global or bigger scale. To make an analogy, itās like saying āletās remove all the stairs in the world and replace them with ramps and elevators so the people on wheel chairs have access to everywhere.ā Nothing against people that has no other option, thatās not what Iām trying to say, but we shouldnāt go that far just to benefit a group of people.
According to some psychologists Iāve talked about it (I happen to know a lot irl), leaving an anti-social person in the comfort zone isnāt beneficial to either, the individual nor the community they form part of. We all want the same thing when it comes to running dungeons: items, experience points and to have fun, but some people have left the social experience out of that equation.
I propose that the current situation we are experiencing, where people have silent runs or get insulted when they try to start a conversation, may be as well a symptom of the social consequence of having LFD/RDF for so long --the game has existed longer with it than without it-- but thatās just a hypothesis and I lack the data to back it up.