Youre just making the same mistake the OP did. Nothing changes except running dungeons becomes more efficient for group seekers than it currently is. Thats all RDF is brings to the table. The level of toxic behavior remains the same if not worsens which is far more likely to happen because by the players own admission socialization at that level is pretty much a depressing lab experiment in ‘what have you done for me lately?’
Nobody really cares.
Which is what I think the OP and people like yourself are really hoping for. In a rando queue system like that your odds of getting into a group that wont scrutinize because they all fear being scrutinized is much higher.
But like you said, the content is faceroll. Thats because that is end result of wanting everything faceroll. Reap what you sow I guess.
But then there’s the other people who weaponize or otherwise abuse every other system and person in the game and its not like theyre denied access so yeah, thats another reason why Im so pro RDF. The real nostalgia element for me with the Classics is players clamoring for stuff that doesnt need, warrant or deserve saving. Reading threads about all the tomfoolery in RDF groups would be the deliciously sweet icing on the proverbial cake.
Ive already seen it all once already - and there were people foolishly claiming you couldnt go back and relive it. Well, here we are!
Again you typed a whole lot without saying anything.
So you are saying grouping is Toxic… Period? Manually created or Generated? But Generated groups are MORE Toxic? I am trying to understand what your point is, cause you talk in circles.
So to this my reply is:
Dungeons do not matter. Dungeons are needed and then no longer needed by all characters at some point. The toxic nature of dungeons is going to be the same in all groups depending on the same crap that can happen if its a Generated Group or Manually created group ( minus friends/guilds ) But even between guildies and Friends loot drama and drama can occur, just more likely bound to happen when everyone doesn’t know each other… but this is a non-point… cause at the end of the day… DUNGEON DO NOT MATTER.
The end and final point is Why not Remove Dual Spec if you are removing RDF? Why not remove Emblem Gear? Why allow 70 boosts? Why Allow GDKPs? Why remove one of these things and not all the others? If you goal is to create better social experiences?
But we know thats not the goal, we know thats not why you are on here arguing and why Blizzard is removing it.
Blizzard is removing it in hopes that more people will pay for 70 boosts… as more than likely no one is playing Cata Classic… (if it even gets developed)
You are on here arguing because you get some sort of weird enjoyment out of being anti-whatever anyone else is for… you are a troll… and not even a good one… atleast form a valid argument.
Before RDF: Drama, greed, apathy, spite and anger.
After RDF: Drama, greed, apathy, spite and anger now with ez mode queue group button.
Now its not all like that obviously but if the social atmosphere “what can you provide me?” the prevailing attitude you think you are escaping is just going to follow you into RDF.
Caps lock all you want, if dungeons dont matter then you dont need a support system for them. Really you undermine your argument with that stuff. Obviously they matter to someone. Thats what all this fuss is about.
LOL what does this even mean? You remove the “what can you provide me” with RDF… you literally remove gatekeeping… RDF doesn’t exclude anyone, and make finding a dungeon 100x easier.
I 100% am not undermining my argument… my argument is there is no need to remove RDF… BECAUSE DUNGEONS DO NOT MATTER.
My argument requires blizz to do nothing… literally nothing… do not touch Wraith… All we’re asking
The OP said the social atmosphere makes it difficult to find reliable groups in a timely manner. His suggested fix was RDF. What you cannot seem to grasp is that prevailing “problematic” social atmosphere will simply spread into RDF. Its not a filter.
The OP tried to make a case that RDF will handle this in some way but likewise, you could do that on your own too, without RDF - in other words RDF isnt really doing anything to address your* reasons for wanting it in the first place - those things cancel each other out. Your opinion is negated.
Its lipstick on a pig. I find that an odd thing to lobby for despite any potential personal benefits.
Again you just typed a lot of stuff and said nothing…
RDF makes finding groups easier… without RDF which we’ve had two classic expansions of testing… its literally a pain unless you are a tank to find a dungeon that you want to run… sifting through trolling, guild recruitment, boosting, and everyhting else… and 50 dps spamming the person “invite” or my favorite “sir mage” “sir invite”.
RDF has been needed ALL of classic… it would have kept people active instead of quitting because all they are doing is raid logging.
Thats because we are having different discussions. Im on the topic at hand and you are having the argument you want to have with yourself.
That wasn’t up for debate. No one is saying otherwise. That’s what RDF was designed to do and we know it works. The OP noted there is a lot of baggage that comes with finding groups on your own, without RDF.
The discussion I was having with the OP was whether or not that baggage gets checked by the door or does it have the very real potential to invade on your safe space.
I already have my answer - this isnt Wraths first go around.
I was there, have 0 memories of anything RDF related… if it was negative I think I’d remember… I do remember Cata Raid Finders though… cause that was a legit terrible experience all around… this made-up farce that RDF = to Raid Finder is so funny to me… DUNGEONS DO NOT MATTER… THE ONLY THING WRONG WITH DUNGEONS IN CLASSIC IS THAT YOU CANNOT EASILY RUN THEM… SO WHY REMOVE THE THING THAT FIXES THAT. WHO CARES ABOUT ALL THIS OTHER STUFF YOU GUYS ARE DISCUSSING.
Day 1 Vanilla dude. For whatever thats supposed to count for.
There were plenty of people obsessed with the holy gear score that sought to try to add meaning where there was none and ruin our perfectly lovely futility. I guess you had a different experience and/ or werent paying attention.
Since we’re talking WoW history, how about the cliff notes version: It got ruined.
I honestly cant believe something as good and wholesome as RDF that was embraced by a mature and sentient gaming audience didnt save the game since its being labeled as a savior and everyone was awesome about it. Must be one of those weird coincidences.
Complete mystery as to why Blizz is victimizing us this way. Oh thats right they’re greedy and the poor souls they exploit are just innocent bystanders of an ungrateful tyranny.
No one is saying RDF saved WoW… RDF being in WOTLK won’t change Retail WoW… Retail WoW is dead to most of us people who actually played Vanilla, TBC, and WOTLK.
Gear Score memeing will be a thing without RDF…without RDF is gonna go like this “Invite DPS”, “Whats your gear Score”. lol… “Do you need (insert random gear here)?”
God why are you guys fighting to literally remove something so beneficial.
I dont want it removed. I want RDF with the ICC patch if not at launch.
I just dont agree that its 100% necessary and extremely important - because its not. I just want it and Im not fake enough to make up some phony reason to defend and vindicate it.
My idea is RDF for all non 80 heroic Dungeons. Would make leveling alts fun but will keep all the community benefits together at cap cause people will be forced to interact and form groups for end game content. Just like in live
At this stage, assuming there is any community/social value left in random encounters with others for dungeon runs (even through manually forming groups) is criminal.
