RDF (LFG Tool)

[Truthspeaker-earthfury]

He should try the story forums. He would either raise hell or get ignored quickly but they are pretty uptight there.

[Daedrik-benediction]

Actually not a bad theory… take out RDF 1-68 keeps people buying boosts therefor buying gold. Therefore keepingbots subbed

[Petrova-proudmoore]

@Aurumai-grobbulus

They’re revamping the LFG tool that was originally in Wrath.

They’ve said throughout TBCC that they’re revamping the tool and we have yet to see it. Wouldn’t be surprised if it’s not in Wrath classic on launch. They are trusting a small group of streamers to tell them what people want.

That’s why you see Soda popping up around the forums giving his take against RDF. But he never argues for an improved LFG tool. He is a popular streamer that will never need to find pugs in the LFG channel, so the rest of the players’ plight doesn’t affect him. And Blizzard is listening to people like that, not realizing how different streamers have it.

[Deflux-uldaman (Deflux)]

@Aurumai-grobbulus

Even if we take only the actual window of Wrath’s full content release, the period without dungeon finder was longer than the period with it, and importantly, the period with it was a content drought. Summing up dungeon finder’s place objectively, even with a perspective that is as generous as it can possibly be toward the feature, neither of the objective measures for its place in Wrath say that dungeon finder is necessary for a faithful Wrath Classic.

kinda plays in RDF favor most of the time if you have droughts you end up with subs dropping off and they didn’t.

[Petnavi-illidan]

Community was destroyed due to both the character boosting and dungeon boosting. GDKP’s and RMT has further destroyed the community. The only “community” that exists in classic is your guild and even then everyone is busy RMTing so they can raidlog and complain there’s nothing to do

[Onikaroshi-mankrik]

@Petnavi-illidan

even then everyone is busy RMTing so they can raidlog and complain there’s nothing to do

You must have been in some horrible guilds.

Ours is around a lot and most don’t GDKP

The community outside guilds was dead long before the rise of GDKPs and boosting though.

[Ziryus-pagle]

@Deuloc-mankrik

@Zaalg-mankrik

And you can with dungeon finder too. It has literally zero impact on people who want to just play with guildies. Or are you saying the elitist gatekeepers need to control who’s able to do dungeons? Because we see how well that’s worked out with TBCC.

Dungeon finder is responsible for the collapse of server communities and social bonds and Blizzard removed it to preserve those aspects of the game for Classic.

Except LFD had nothing to do with that, it’s just a lazy scape goat for people(including the devs) who don’t want to look at bigger reasons why that happened.

The reality is we’ve seen 3+ years of classic with no LFD and classic has failed to recreate the original social atmosphere. It’s silly to think that it will suddenly happen in wrath classic just because no LFD.

[Dexametasona-benediction]

Exactly, it’s the whole truth. The dungeon finder existed in WOTLK. If they don’t want it, don’t play it.

[Bubbleherph-ashkandi]

@Bloomsday-sulfuras

Under an LFD system, there isn’t meaningful interaction, that’s what you seem to not understand. Quality > Quantity, ever hear of this phrase, they use it a lot early on in preschool? You’d do well to study it.

In the current TBC classic I respecced from shadow to holy and have leveled all the way to 65 so far in the last week and a half…in everyone of these groups there was the same amount of human interaction as I remember with RDF. We have had very little conversation…its been like being in a group with a bunch of bots. I don’t understand the “iT dEsTrOyS tHe CoMmUnItY!” argument. Last night I spent 45 minutes in Shat LFG only to get invited to a group of 3 DPS. That group fell apart with no communication and then I got whispered for another group of 3 DPS. Yeah, RDF will totally ruin the community…

[Onikaroshi-mankrik]

And they fight for the LFG tool, which is just as “un-social” as the LFD tool they demonize.

[Deuloc-mankrik]

@Ziryus-pagle

Except LFD had nothing to do with that

Not according to Blizzard. Use whatever mental gymnastics you want to make yourself feel better or to make the oppositions arguments look less valid, but you are wrong. Dungeon finder was controversial when it was first added in patch 3.3.0 and it is responsible for the collapse of server communities and social bonds, as outlined by Blizzard in their WotLK Classic announcement. Your opinion does not outweigh the opinions of people who make this game. This is Blizzards game, they can do whatever they want with it, including ignoring people like you who are in favor of destroying the social aspect of the game for the sake of a QoL/time saving feature.

@Ziryus-pagle

The reality is we’ve seen 3+ years of classic with no LFD and classic has failed to recreate the original social atmosphere.

Speak for yourself. In less than 3 years Classic has brought back a very strong sense of community and has led to more social bonds/social interaction for me than retail has over the past 10 years. There are very clear differences between Classic and Retail and many of the best differences are there because dungeon finder does not exist in Classic.

[Bloodythorns-whitemane]

@Deuloc-mankrik

and it is responsible for the collapse of server communities and social bonds, as outlined by Blizzard in their WotLK Classic announcement.

No it isn’t. Prove it. Without using Blizzard’s statements.

[Onikaroshi-mankrik]

I can prove its not honestly, but they don’t listen anyway.

[Bloodythorns-whitemane]

I honestly don’t know a single person who quit retail WoW over community. Everyone I know quit over gameplay changes, mechanics, lore, etc. There’s an argument that could be made that a stronger sense of community might have kept them in, but it’s impossible to prove and I don’t think suggesting that Peer Pressuring someone to keep playing a game they don’t like is a good thing.

The only person I know who quit over “community” issues, quit near the end of Classic WoW because of guild leadership.

I highly doubt, anyone ever put down “Random Dungeon Finder” as the reason for cancelling their subscription in Blizzard’s survey - but I probably just gave a few trolls an idea.

[Deuloc-mankrik]

“As a result of this automatizing the group formation process and instantaneous means of traveling to the dungeon, the time and incentives for the members of the group to socialize and build relationships (Yee 2006) was reduced for groups formed through Dungeon Finder.”

“This Dungeon Finder removed both the necessity of players to manually look for other group members to do dungeons with as well as the necessity of travelling through the world to the dungeons location. This removed much of the time and incentives for social interactions in the form of socializing and building relationships (Yee 2006).”

“players grouped through this Dungeon Finder were less concerned with sustaining or building reputations and relationships with other group members from different realms since they were unlikely to ever meet again after the dungeon. Some respondents in Crenshaw and Nardi (2016) stated that automatized group formations led to players disregarding each other, while more or less objectified other players as non-human.”

“Many players claim the social experience to be an appealing and charming part of MMO games, and that this Dungeon Finder diminished communication within the group as well as reduced players’ loyalty to the group (Crenshaw & Nardi 2016). Since the Dungeon Finder quickly could find replacements for players leaving the dungeon, players and their loyalty to the group were no longer as important and the social experience was reduced to instrumental at best (Crenshaw & Nardi 2016).”

https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:1270798/FULLTEXT02

Yee, N. 2006. Motivations for Play in Online Games. CyberPsychology & Behavior, 9 (6), 772-775. https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/794e/19fe40a3207ae29eec4ddf4f2feeb773a3ff.pdf

Crenshaw, N., LaMorte, J., & Nardi, B. 2017. " Something We Loved That Was Taken Away": Community and Neoliberalism in World of Warcraft. Proceedings of the 50th Hawaii International Conference on System Sciences (HICSS). http://hdl.handle.net/10125/41401

There have been extensive psychological studies done that prove my point. This is only the tip of the iceberg.

[Bloodythorns-whitemane]

@Deuloc-mankrik

“This Dungeon Finder removed both the necessity of players to manually look for other group members to do dungeons with as well as the necessity of travelling through the world to the dungeons location. This removed much of the time and incentives for social interactions in the form of socializing and building relationships (Yee 2006).”

Relationships were still necessary to progress beyond dungeons and effectively raid.

@Deuloc-mankrik

“players grouped through this Dungeon Finder were less concerned with sustaining or building reputations and relationships with other group members from different realms since they were unlikely to ever meet again after the dungeon."

Due to a technological limitation that prevented them from effectively maintaining an in-game relationship with players on other servers. A limitation that is now only an artificial and arbitrary construct in the Classic universe and does not exist in the retail environment.

@Deuloc-mankrik

Crenshaw, N., LaMorte, J., & Nardi, B. 2017. " Something We Loved That Was Taken Away": Community and Neoliberalism in World of Warcraft. Proceedings of the 50th Hawaii International Conference on System Sciences (HICSS). http://hdl.handle.net/10125/41401

This is limited to WoW players who went back to play on private servers. That’s a pretty biased subset of people to start with.

None of that explains how other games are able to build stronger communities while still providing automated matchmaking services.

[Deuloc-mankrik]

@Bloodythorns-whitemane

other games are able to build stronger communities while still providing automated matchmaking services.

Your turn to prove it.

[Onikaroshi-mankrik]

@Deuloc-mankrik

Your turn to prove it.

FFXIV is both super social and provides LFD and has their normal raids matchmade.

[Deuloc-mankrik]

@Onikaroshi-mankrik

FFXIV is both super social and provides LFD and has their normal raids matchmade.

This is not proof of anything, sorry. Let’s see some data, studies or something else substantial.

[Onikaroshi-mankrik]

See, anything that goes against your point you just dismiss, no point in talking about it.