I think the problem with SoD class design is that they simply do not comprehend how interconnected the power factor of gear is… and I have been complaining about gear that’s too strong for a long time, I think its bad for the game overall because when you get gear that’s literally orders of magnitude better than starter gear the approachability of PVE / PVP just becomes pointless.
I am not opposed to gear progressing to get little better by little better, but I think it should have stayed in the Molten Core / BWL range of power factor, maybe more closer to Molten Core at the max.
Another problem with SoD is abilities are just too mindless, for example Mutilate Rune you can get is literally better than any other rune you can use because it benefits from all backstab talents, and does effectively 2X backstab damage and costs 40 energy less, and awards 2 combo points…
Why even bother to train SS, Hemo, Backstab, because there is simply no point to them. Its kinda an extreme example, but every class has crap like that, and its a pure painful lack of choice. Where as contrast to Actual vanilla where you have honestly a very wide variety of PVP capable builds to play.
Rune abilities and power creep are one thing, streamlines gear sets are another.
It’s extremely easy to get full bis in sod. Everyone knows exactly what gear they’re going to wear and it’s all readily available within a day of playing and a few raids then it’s over.
It’s like playing vanilla but the gearing works like tbc and onward. The path is narrowed down to one road per class
Sod p4 has tier tokens. Okay… so everyone just gets 8 piece and they’re done. Woo! A few rings and that’s it. And it’s all gonna be given via incursions and free rep
#1 Era should not have changes, it’s had too many already IMO. #2 Adding arena to Era would not help it retain its Classic feel. A person who says this must have started playing in TBC or beyond because there’s no way a person who started in Vanilla would say something this ridiculous. #3 SoD is the place for changes, not that I’m a fan of them, but here is what Blizzard said when a person asked about arenas and RBGs there just the other day:
“Essentially no chance. SoD PvP is not suited for ranked/rated PvP.” https://x.com/AggrendWoW/status/1806115853286662640 #4 Retail people say the same “change or die” thing all the time. They are often addicted to their collections. If you love change that’s the number one WoW game for you.
You’re comparing two different audiences. Most folks playing Era are happy with it as is.
SoD has a ton of changes, and in my opinion it feels nothing like Vanilla.
Tell you what, if you don’t like Vanilla play one of the many other varieties they offer. Don’t come in here trying to mess up what others are enjoying.
Put your ideas together and ask for those changes on the next season.
I should re-iterate I never wanted this change to era, but for seasonal PvP. It’s also not intended to stop premades or friends playing together for-fun in BG’s, but to provide a rated avenue for those wanting to go beyond. ‘‘Casuals’’ and ‘‘Hardcore’’ does not mean ‘‘solo queuers’’ and ‘‘group play’’, but quite literally, people who will seek challenge for challenge sake vs those who want to press buttons against other players.
Personally, I don’t consider anything SoD does to be canon to future Vanilla modes/freshes (lmao). SoM is more canon than SoD is.
I would say Vanilla is the one and only exception to this for WoW. WotLK onwards would be very boring to be on forever. TBC wouldn’t be too bad because there are more options for stuff to do.
Vanilla is the only version of the game that could be played for 2+ years without needing more stuff added to the game to do.
Key issue here is that the Devs who made the game are no longer with the company, have moved to other teams/positions or have the mindset that created retail.
Going to be almost impossible to glob content onto Vanilla that isn’t a failure of one kind or another. MMOs have totally changed for one thing, so what was pretty casual friendly once is now considered grindy. Anyway point being I ageee with your statement except for Vanilla.
My comments aren’t directed at you, rather the Gnome who wants to mess up ERA.
I see this more as, organized and unorganized. I think there’s room for both.
People apply the word “casual” to too many different meanings. Some use to refer to people with less time, inexperienced players, lazy players, bad players. You have no idea which meaning when the word is tossed around so frequently.
You want to add in PvP options to seasonal? Have at it
Same with mine in this thread, although I know Duckling was the OP.
Yep. It’s hard to know what definition people are implying when they say the word “casual”.
I still remember the old guild leadership forum on here. It was common knowledge to not call your guild casual or hardcore and instead to describe the goals and culture of the guild, because “casual” and “hardcore” mean different things to different people. So changing the wording would help recruit a better fit.
Separating casual PvPers from hardcore PvPers is what led to less casual PvPers enjoying PvP. Not only were they well aware they would never get the top-end PvP gear, but they also were being crushed by people in that top-end gear with the knowledge they will not get strong enough to be equal on a gear level.
If I didn’t want to progress my character in gear, I would just play a game such as Fortnite or Call of Duty, etc. I want to eventually get to the best PvP gear as a casual (but I know slower than someone hardcore). You can see with the dead PvP landscape today that competitive PvP for rating is not what people want. It’s not fun to lose because you come out worse off than you started (lower rating and aggravation). Very few people want a ladder system which Blizzard can implement, but since you say it isn’t about gear nothing but titles should be rewarded from it.
I have a different take. Rated Vanilla BGs would probably be enough fun that it would bring back people who just really enjoy a tough WSG match against other good teams. Potential to be more interesting than Arena and maybe even draw some of the big names in PVP who still have an interest in playing.
The main issue I see is the reward structure. Most things in WoW are done for gear. We already have a ranking system that rewards gear. Does the Rated BG system offer better gear, special tabards/titles/mounts, what exactly?
As long as they set the rating on the player not the team.
This whole thing about blizzard making pvp a whole logistical mess of organizing people to play at the same time is ridiculous. The entire point of pvp is to login whenever and get good games, dota and leagues can do it so can vanilla with WSG if blizzard looks at their rating systems for design structure.
Give everyone individual MMR, put people with similar MMR together, and call it a day. The goal of algorithm is simple:
Player MMR isn’t too far gap
Team MMR isn’t too far gap
If they can get within some reasonable degree on those two metrics basically every game will be good at all levels.
