Trolls have levels of PO’d. The Troll Wars are like a 7 but this is like a 15.
I think this goes above and beyond trolls being agitated because humans are living on “Troll Land”. Like Bronnix said, the Alliance just took a major crap right on top of the Holiest of Holies for trolls everywhere.
EDIT: Putting it in that light, one can almost expect a crapload of Gurubashi trolls racing up out of Stranglethorn and making lives of people in Elwynn forest a total hell. Somehow though, I doubt Blizzard thinks of these things.
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Just building on long abandoned sacred land started the Troll Wars. This is a thousand times more rage inducing for Trolls and it just happened.
Warfront Westfall has a good ring to it. Or it could be Stranglethorn either way.
The problem with that is, the Horde questing makes it evident that a lot of trolls - including a ton of Zandalari - actually defected and sided with Zul and his loa-murdering, temple-defiling cohorts, as well as their blood troll allies. So unfortunately a whole lot of trolls’ general respect for Rastakhan and even their own holy places and traditions seems to have been on the wane.
Honestly the sheer desperation of the situation presented when Zul betrays Rastakhan and his allies turn coat all over the place makes it seem like at least half of Zandalar, and possibly a lot more than that, may have sided with the Prophet against their king. Arguably one of the big challenges Talanji may have to deal with as Queen is leading her part of the war effort while simultaneously convincing her own people she’s worthy to lead after so many of them had already come to disdain her father for seeming weak and aloof and turned their backs on the loa in favor of dabbling in blood magics.
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And this is why i said that rasthakan, at that point in time had no other choice, ignoring zul is what caused this. it was his incompetence that lead him to that situation,same with katherine, if they did their jobs then they wouldn’t have to depend on external forces. to defend their nations
unfortunately for both, the horde and the alliance are in open war in another war started by the horde.
Difference being, that neither theramore or the alliance started that war, the horde is the one who started it. yes it was an atrocity.
and what the hell the americans were doing in that war exactly?
and yes, americans, or pretty much the entire history of the human race is filled with atrocities, the crimes committed by the americans are no different.
if you are trying to convince me that hiroshima and nagasaki were valid military targets then you are not going to succeeded, those people were innocents, there is no excuse in how many “lives” were saved. it was an evil act no doubt and evil acts deserve retribution.
i agree that it was a military target but that war was started by the horde,not the alliance jaina wasn’t neutral, she chose a side and payed the consequences. the moment that the horde attacked the night elves, she had no choice but to help them because she was part of the alliance, if she leaved the alliance she would be alone, garrosh would have attacked her anyway eventually except that if she asked for help to the alliance, varian would have send her to hell.
if you agree that theramore was a legit target, then so was rasthakan an dazarlazor. with the big difference that the alliance at least had the decency to give them a chance to surrender.
Both military targets, one being an atrocity and the other a battle.
Other than his general who was a Sand Troll I dont think any of the other Tribes joined in for that. It was mainly Blood Trolls, a few Zandalari traitors, and Mogu.
The problems with the other tribes that we dealt with was a separate issue. They just didn’t like us in Zandalar.
Besides with Zul and G’huun dead so is that revolution. I think if say Vol’jin were to speak with them they would probably listen since hes a powerful loa now. Specially if their loa were to agree with him.
I think Vol’Jin put it best when you turn in the quest for dunking his glaive in G’Huun’s blood. Talanji was more of a leader of Zandalar than Rastakhan was even before his death. She was the one who stepped up and did something about the blood troll threat and the issues of corrupt politicians.
I would not be surprised if a lot of the Zandalari and other troll peoples felt the same way.
Again you make such a large effort to completely avoid the point.
Here it is, again:
Would you agree or disagree that Katherine helping the Alliance is the right thing to do after they helped her with her problems around Kul’Tiras?
Would you agree or disagree that Talanji and Rastakhan helping the Horde is the right thing to do after they helped save their kingdom against G’Huun and his followers?
I’m going to go out on a limb here and assume that your answers are going to be “Yes” and “No” respectively based on reasoning that “Horde Started the War!”
Why should the Zandalari care? They were being attacked by a world eating blood god and his followers and they got someone to help take care of that threat. Seems the honorable thing to do is do something to return the favor.
So starting a war makes all war actions after atrocities in your book. Gotcha.
So then Daelin Proudmoore is a confirmed jerkwad. 
I triple dog dare you to go repeat that in a room full of WWII vets. 
Are you sure? I mean, he didn’t go out of his way to destroy any neutral towns or locations in Kalimdor. I don’t recall him making any moves on Cenarion Circle encampments. Maybe declaring neutrility could have saved Theramore. Who knows?
Did they? I seem to have missed the part in the cinematic where they gave the troll fleets and ultimatum to surrender before Gelbin Mechatorque pushed his big red button and sent countless trolls to their deaths. If it happened ingame, please point it out to me.
That’d be such a great way to keep the Alliance from winning the war in a matter of weeks opposed to what we’re likely going to get with the Naga destroying the Kul Tiras fleet. It could even play off of the Alliance racism that’s always talked about but never seen. Like they never even considered the ramifications of attacking Zandalar because it just a bunch of trolls they see as below them.
Yes and i say that there are consequences for choosing a side.
same point.
That isn’t what i said,i consider it an atrocity for the unnecessary cruelty that followed it and because it was a war started by the horde if they didn’t captured those civilians, then i would not call it that way.
The other was battle after the alliance reaction to a war started by the horde. but i am not seeing the alliance capturing the civilians of the city to torture them for fun.
Every act of unnecessary cruelty counts as atrocity in my book, much more if you are the one who started the war in the first place.
i don’t disagree 
So vets are totally okay with it, hum? killing so many civilians for what exactly? they weren’t an existencial threat.
Yes it was his intention to conquer all kalimdor, as siege of orgrimmar proved, he was an orc supremacist and wanted to kill all non-orcs.
Because there was no other choice, the fleet were a threat to the force attacking and they did give rasthakan an ultimatum.
there was an ultimatum for the other? and again, a war not started by the alliance and neither unnecessary cruelty (sadly, i really would have liked true revenge)
Fair.
Those are two different events though. The bombing happened and civilians were captured. I’d agree that the torture of civilians was an atrocity but the bombing itself? No, it really wasn’t.
Maybe not in Dazar’Alar. I haven’t gotten far enough in the raid so I can’t say for sure if things are different Horde side. If I see anything I’ll let you know. However, what are your thoughts about a tauren gal kept chained to a grating in Boralus so that water keeps falling on her? Or the troll used for archery practice? Can’t mention the orc made to wash clothes or the undead made to cook because making prisoners work isn’t cruel, but the first two? Yeah.
Point being, neither side is free of being jerks.
I’m sure they were perfectly fine with NOT having to fight through jungle and mud and one city block after another in order to drudge their way to a victory where a bunch of civilians would have died anyway, but you’ll have to ask them to be sure.
Sure there was. You all could have turned your ships around and went home.
Sorry, we spoiled it. Horde players arrive saying, “No, you can’t have this city” and y’all ran.
/shrug
It was, war started by the horde. but then again you think that hiroshima and nagasaki were okay when that was far more worse. lol. i guess that we will never agree in this point.
atrocity and unnecessarily cruelty.
i have no doubt about that.
there is no justification for the bombings,sorry.it was evil.
And lose the advantage thanks to the suicide mission?
The alliance has no choice but win the war or be exterminated by your genocidal warchief.
i mean, i wish that the alliance went with the atrocity this time, bomb the damn place, it would be a nice revenge AND atrocity (an evil, of course) but didn’t happened.
but nah alliance prefers the “battle” approach. are we really comparing it?
the horde are very sensitive. getting a slightly mean look or rude remark makes them thirst for genocide and murder
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Which is it? An atrocity for capturing civilians or an atrocity because Horde started the war? 
Pretty much.
Sure there was if it meant sparing bloodshed that would have happened with all the combatants with civilians getting caught up in it anyway, but you clearly refuse to see it that way so I refuse to argue about it anymore.
You could have also chosen not to send troops on a suicide mission. /shrug
Just a thought.
That would be an interesting change of pace, but I don’t think Blizzard has the balls to let Alliance too far into the morally-gray.
You’ll have to forgive us. Legit reasons for Horde being pissed at Alliance are relatively few and small. We don’t have the benefit of getting mad at genocides. 
But hey! At least now you can say “We got to have raids in not just one, but TWO Horde cities!” 
Both.
i respect your opinion but i just don’t agree.
The alliance didn’t choose to start the war. to be honest, they should have, only if lordaeron was first.
The horde IS an existencial threat to the alliance.
Now, hear me out in this. I DON’T think that the alliance is angelic, we have our list of crimes as well , but compared to the horde? child’s play.
Can we agree on this at least? if you think that theramore was a legit target, then so was dazarlazor and rasthakan. Yes or no?
Um… looks at Genn who started this war Really?.. The Alliance didn’t want this war. Oh yes, let us forget Rogers who is STILL a high-ranking officer AFTER murdering a bunch of surrendering Orc forces in Pandaria, AFTER going against Anduin’s wishes and committing High Treason alongside Genn…
No the Alliance isn’t angelic, in fact, they have been proven to be not much better then the Horde.
What was your though on Sylvanas releasing the blight on the battlefield even though not all of her troops had been able to retreat yet. I mean, you just said that sacrificing soldiers is alright if it accomplishes some sort of goal, which the blighting did, if Deus ex Jaina hadn’t appeared that would have been the Horde’s victory right there, it prevented the Alliance from storming Lordaeron and murdering more Horde Soldiers. And if Theramore was a viable military target, as Dazar’alor was, then Teldrassil was just as viable a military target.
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The mental gymnastics in this thread are absolutely hilarious.
Genn has every right to attack sylvanas for attacking his NEUTRAL kingdom.
if you demand justice with him, why not just ask it? i am sure that sylvanas could demand that to anduin if she truly cared about stormheilm Protip:she didn’t.
When the alliance destroy a city full of civilians without provocation other than “they may attack in 50 years” i will agree with you, until that day, i will wait.
i don’t care.
it is when you aren’t the one who started the war and neither want to destroy the world.
luckily elsa saved us all from the scourge.
Easy there, satan.
There is not such thing as “high treason” to the high king.
Yeah, a attack that she was forced to commit under Garrosh… oh wait… they retconned that, never mind. A attack so long past that it should not matter anymore. He has no right to start a war while fel-fire is raining from the sky and the end of the world is happening. And ready the Good War novel, she does care, she cites it as the reason why there can never be peace between the Horde and the Alliance. And even SAURFANG, you know, the badass Orc that they pansified, had to agree.
Camp Tauraho, the attempt on Orgrimmar, the genocide on the blood elves, part 1 and 2, Orc Concentration Camps, those are just a few from the top of my head.
Well good thing the Horde DIDN’T start this war, isn’t it?
You mean, the Alliance got another deus ex machina to save them because if the Alliance would lose, Sylvanas would succeed and grant the Horde a era of peace while the alliance are forced to live under the Horde boot.
Nope, if you can legitimize Dazar’alor and Theramore, then you can legitimize Teldrassil as well. So unless you think that both the bombing of Theramore and the slaughter of Dazar’alor is evil, you are just as much the satan as you claim I am.
Lemme look up the definition of High Treason for you:
‘an act of treason directly affecting a sovereign or state’
-Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged, 12th Edition 2014 © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2014
I don’t know about you, but going against your kings orders and starting a war with the opposing faction for your own personal vendetta is a treason that affects the Alliance, thusly ‘HIGH TREASON’. This doesn’t change simply because Anduin is so incompetent that he couldn’t lead a flock of Dodos.
except they did, we are explicitly told that before the war of thorns there was no war. so the war started as soon as the horde attacked the night elves
Sorry buddy, they did. The sparks that started this war:
-Unprovoked attack in Stormheim.
-Coup at Arathi.
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