Random ideas for frost dk (talents / abilities)

Classes Death Knight
1

hello, with the hype for shadowlands i cant help but think about what they could add or change for the frost death knight spec talent branch.

for the level 15 talents that focus more on single target we really only used Cold heart for most of bfa some even use Inexorable Assault wich is really good and fits with how we play the spec hence we are constantly mashing oblitirate, so why not weave how Cold heart stacked (1stack every 2sec) with oblitirates instead maybe even reduce the stacks to 10 for balance, in cold hearts place maybe add a sunder effect for whenver u oblitiate ( more dmg for u raid or grp) or Rune stike the one from blood that one could be good for frost seeing the amount of runes we burn so it can reset.

level 25 (formerly 57) talents focus on either RP or Rune or both generation, tbh i see no reason why Horn of winter isn’t baseline maybe reduce the CD to 30 instead of 45, only reason we ever took Runic Attenuation was for BoS and only has 3RP * 18 PPM so around 53 RP ? i dunno how procs are calculated tbh, killing efficiency is good as it is i suppose.

level 30 (again was 58in bfa) is just utility although only thing here that i would like to have baslined would be the stun, id like to have a combot between that aoe blind and stun they would come in really handy in mythics hell if baslined set it to 60sec CD and add a talent to reduce its CD either by runes spent or just 15sec reduction to 45sec CD

level 35 ( BfA=60) yup the AOE row, honsetly with the buff to avalanche i think this row is ok, not a big fan of Frozen Pulse, YOU KNOW WHAT is better? frost whelps :smiley: yup from the azerite trait whenver u casted Pillar of frost whelps would breath infront of u, my only fav thing in this xpac XD

level 40 (75 bfa) the mobility/defensive row, perma frost is good for those long fghts with stacking dmg helps healers alot but id reather see it like a warlock leach thing instead like maybe a talent called Frozen Sleet " frost and sleet covers your body absorbing the next dmg Equal to 10% of ur max health gernerates from auto attacks and at a rate if 0.5% every 2sec or 4sec", **death pact just hits the spot, Wraith walk now makes no sense kinda since we are already in the shadowlands, maybe some sorta lock like death gate as a raid utiliy?.

level 40 (90 in bfa) the row that makes/Gives u more AoE, GS is nice no need for a change, the new talent they added Hypothermic presence is really interesting on a nice CD reduces the cost of runic spender ( BoS and Frost stike NOTE: this could be bad for our Rune regen since the more RP we spend the more chance we can get a rune from runic empowerment ) it also does not trigger the GCD its like its built around BoS right? and finally the underdog of 2 xpacs in a row Glacial advance, just make it basline or just delete it to be fair . . .

and finally the level 50 talent row ( formally 100 in BFA) the talents that determine wich paystyle u will be playing, icecap did get a chunky buff with pillar have 20% strg and getting reduced by 4sec instead of 3sec not bad but it could get atleast another flavor to it like making the stg diminish over time not instantly,
Now as for BoS heres what i think that could work theres alot of ideas i had for it :
1# make it basline on a 25sec CD but instead consumes a big chunk of runic power like Bone storm to deal its damage in a cone over time maybe weave that dmg increase like GS into it per rune spent
2# same as above but instead of getting stronger with rune spent make it apply a shadowfrost stacking debuff insreacsine frost and shadow dmg taken by the target, could bring in some grp utility
3# go full wack make it have no CD and just and activate toggle on/off <— now this is why i suggested adding big single target hitter to make u deciced if u wana burn ur RP on AoE or to use it on ST
4# same thing as BFA BoS but for the love of azerith reduce its CD
5#replace it, yeah if we have the Frost wyrm now maybe add a talent that makes its CD 5min but instead of breathing and going adios dk boi, IT SUMMONS THE DRAGON AS A GUARDIAN for 30 or 20 sec who attack ur target and breath little aoe on them

and to finish it abilites that would be nice if baslined :
BoS - Glacial advance - magus of the dead instaead of ghoul - Horn of winter . . .

im all ears on your ideas too let me hear what u think about my ideas too

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There are a few changes I would make to frost.

1st BoS would be gone.

2nd I would make all of our damage frost based.

3rd I would change the obliteration talent. I would make it so that those that want to lean towards a obliterate playstyle can. It would change obliterate from being AP scaling to weapon damage scaling(you know for those big juicy obliterate numbers with 2h.)

4th Speaking of 2h. I would have 2h being able to use 2 runes so that dw and 2h on that part are viable. I would also follow the suggestions on how to make both options viable within 1-3% dps of each other.

5th I would change Death Grip so that Death’s Reach is baked into it. And so when we DG something it will automatically apply Chains of Ice on it.

6th Mastery would still be the same but it would also have the Razorice rune baked into it.

7th Pillar of Frost would be changed so it increases our damage and crit by 20%. And so it would also allow the first Oblit used while PoF is active to always crit.

8th Death Strike would be buffed a little bit. But it would also heal better on dot damage (right now it is crap healing when we take dot damage, at least that is my experience).

9th Dnd being returned would do frost damage and dnd would move with us so we can keep its damage on our targets.

10th Wraith Walk would be baseline and well we just need better mobility(again this is just my opinion).

11th Horn of Winter would be base line and it would return to being a group buff for 10% AP, but it would also give 10% Mastery.

12th Inexorable Assault would also be buffed to make it more viable and have options for the first tier of talents.

13th Frost getting summon undead back. I would have it be permanent but it would also be a frost based pet. Also our damage would not be dependent on the pet like unholy.

14th Transfusion would be baseline but not only would it lower the cost of Death Strike but it would also increase its healing by 5-10%.

15th take Frostscythe and put it where BoS was as BoS was removed.

16th We are Death Knights why do we have a breath bar? That would be removed.

17th I would like to find a way to address fall damage somehow. But can not think of anything. Maybe a reverse Death Grip that would push us away from the ground maybe?

18th Updated animations and spell visuals just for DK’s in general.

I expect the perm pet will bring hate. But imo all 3 specs should have one. Even if it does nothing but give a short stun or something that seems like something a dk would have.

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3

Not bad changes. Although some things you propose doesn’t really seem realistic or isn’t fair for some fellow Dks.

1st. BoS is a playstyle that Dks can choose to play vs Icecap. I don’t think removing it is fair for some of those who do like the upkeep playstyle that BoS have.

2nd. Good

3rd. I’d still pick Icecap or BoS. I mean buffing Obliteration is okay for 2h I suppose.

4th. What we really need is Might of the Frozen Wastes that parses between 2h and DW playstyle as DW as you stated obviously ahead due to being able to have 2 runeforges. Since we’re getting new runeforges, DW would be even more powerful and customizable. 2H definitely needs something to compete with double runeforging.

5th. Good. Thematically, attaching Chains of Ice with DG sounds good on paper until you spec into Cold Heart.

6th. That would make Razorice much much better than any other runeforging. Razorice scales crazy good with Mastery already.

7th. If you do this, I will be personally upset with you since I made a Mechagnome DK Frost to multiply my combat analysis. I guess it still does this but I still like the Strength buff it gives. It’s much more straightforward. This change would diminish the value of Crit like fire mages.

8th. Death Strike does trash healing now because of 50% healing nerf in pvp. It’s not too bad in PvE but cutting the healing in half is totally uncalled for.

9th. DnD does shadow damage like it’s always have been. It didn’t have the AoE cleave thing. It’s not exclusive to frost. Defile switched it to Shadowfrost damage until they changed it back to Shadow. :confused: I don’t know why.

10th. True.

11th. HoW was a buff. I don’t know why it’s a resource restoration button that costs a GCD.

12th. I guess? NUKING someone with Cold Heart feels good though. Can’t say it for the pvp though since CoI is used much more constantly.

13th. So… like a revenant? We technically already summon a frostwyrm to wreck icy havoc as well as raising a normal ghoul. Not to disagree with you but I’m kinda curious what do you propose for Frost DK to have an additional summon?

14th. Transfusion is fine. It already lower the cost of DS. It’s that 50% healing nerf that’s BS.

15th. No. In fact, Frostscythe should be baseline. It’s MILES better than Avalanche and Frozen Pulse… although Frozen Pulse is close to competitive for it. But I’m an Icecap build and I love Frostscythe for resource and KM efficiency.

16th. TRUE.

17th. Wraith Walk negates fall damage. Kekw

18th. That’d be nice.

All 3 specs will have raise dead in SL. If all raised ghouls have a stun, Unholy should have something that still stand out and IC doesn’t count -_-

4

So to your response this is mine.

Bos is a point of contention I will give you that its either loved or hated. I hate it I know a few that also hate it but I also know a few that love it so meh.

The 3rd bout buffing obliterate there are players that want to return to the 2h heavy crit style. I can understand that and this would address them and allow 2 plays styles for 2h first being the obliterate heavy play. And second where people can focus on frost damage.

4th I still say we need 2h to have 2 rune forges to normalize the runes between 2h and dw.

5th Yea I do not like the cold heart talent. I mean its decent damage but for something that is just supposed to slow why attach a nuke component to it?

6th This addresses an issue with Razorice even if 2h could not use 2 runeforges they would not miss out on the damage that Razorice does. Also it would again enable us to get rid of that rune for something more fun.

7th Yea I can understand that to be honest I pulled from avenging wrath. For this…We are supposed to be the anti paladin so why not let our spec that is closest to ret insult them by using one of their abilities. Just a thought I had. Also I would like to see the difference if you do str vs dmg like I had listed what would be a better offensive cd.

8th Yes Death Strike does trash now. But its worse vs dot damage.

9th Yep DnD does shadow but like Obliterate it does not synergize with our mastery which is why I would convert its damage to frost damage, or Shadow Frost.

11th I would return HoW as a buff giving ap or strength and mastery to us. And it would not be a talent like it is right now.

12th Move Inexorable Assault to a different tier in the talent.

13th Have our summon be a Frost Whelp or something. Or a undead frost mage. Or a Revenant. And this would be our only summon no temp pet. Kind of think like survival hunter but where our pets are there to help tank or do some dps but not be the bulk. Or like MM hunters with their pets.

14th I was just wanting transfusion from being out of pvp talents and based line. I think it would help with our Death Strike if that healing wasnt restored.

  1. Make Frostscyth baseline I agree. And hey with this free talent put Inexorable Assault here.

17th but then we would waste our movement cd on fall damamge. Or just rework Wraith Walk so its like a slow fall. And give us a better movement cd.

Well considering unholy empowers their pet and that is a good chunk of their damage that is the difference.

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Luckily for you since you’re big fan of doing more Frost Damage from Frost Dks (Quite understandably appropriate), consuming KM in SL will convert Obliterate into Frost Damage. I think anything more would weight Mastery for Frost even more.

3rd. I still feel like Obliteration is still going to be overshadowed by Icecap or BoS. I might be totally wrong on this if people picked Obliteration as 2h would outperform the other two esp with it being Frost damage. It really does need more to compete with other two.

4th. See, I think re-adding Might of the Frozen Wastes is more feasible to compensate for a missing runeforge. Remember, runeforge is an enchantment and the way it game is structured I don’t think having a weapon (or any item for that matter) to have two enchantments as an exception would be easy for the developers. But then we’re talking about Blizzard… Who’s a multimillion dollar company… Who appeases Shareholders rather than customers who do care.

5th. Ey, y’know? CoI has to be a use somehow in PvE :smiley:

6th. This raises me a concern of how Blizzard would do to implement Might of the Frozen Wastes when choosing 2h Playstyle. Double Pillar of Ice Strength? Passive Strength boost? Possibilities are endless and it will end up having different stat priority to DW Frost. Because if I recall, 2h Frost do not use Razorice due to how painfully slow the rampup time is. Also, remember Cinderglacier? Nobody used that runeforge. LOL

7th. Death Knights doesn’t always have to be an anti-paladin. Remember that Death Knights were also WARLOCKS on the Second War. Besides, PoF does a scaling strength increase for every rune you spend making your strength stacking shenanigans much MUCH stronger.

8th. Hey, it could be worse right?

9th. Since DnD is returning to SL and Locutus will be assigned to the Night Fae Covenant. Death’s Due will be more or less used as an utility spell that grants me, you guessed it, MOAR STRENGTH. Other than that, it’s a pretty useless ability for frost. It’s a novelty ability for Frost if you can think like that since we already have RW, Frostscythe and HB for AoE.

11th. So like a Battleshout. Let’s leave Mastery out of it for now. I think you have obsession with Mastery at this point. xD

12th. Which one?

13th. Interesting you brought up Survival and MM for Frost to do. Survival Hunters are more or less a dynamic duo that uses pets to generate focus and uses the abilities of a hunter him/herself to do damage. MM loses damage with a pet on due to their Lone Wolf Passive but still having a pet to taunt off a headbutting mob in HV sounds pretty nifty.

So what would you like this pet to do for Frost Dk?

15th. That’s one way to answer my question for 12th point.

17th. Then let’s give Wraith Walk a second charge and have people complain about Dks being mobile. OMEGALUL

Correction about Unholy, yes Unholy empowers their pet but most of their damage don’t really come from them directly. Dark Transformation enables Festercleave which is more like the damage comes from Pustules and a Pet together. Magus is pretty cool too as they do a lot of damage if you x3 them.

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Well and then there is army of thr dead and thw ability to summon small amount of ghouls from army of the dead if i remember correctly thats apocalypse(sorry doing this all by memory and i haven’t really played unholy in a long time.)

As for the frost perm per it would be just there like how it used to be for mm before lone wolf was a thing. To tank if need or do small amounts of dps.

And for mastery yea it is increasing our frost damage. It should probably be our main stat after strength in SL.

For HoW yea thats what it was before it was removed and then changed. I can remember a warrior and dk basically fighting over who’s buff was on the raid was actually quite funny do see the buffs change. In one boss battle I counted it changing 20 times. Lol

As for death strike no it could be worse. I play an enhancement shaman so it could be reduced to their level of healing.

True Death Knights were orc warlocks that had their soul ripped out if their body and placed into humans so they could infiltrate the alliance if i am remembering correctly. But almost everyone calls DKs the anti paladin. The double buff from PoF and HoW i can see that being an issue. But then again Paladins in a group with warriors.

There are a few dks that do want to return to how 2h frost was in wod and the hard hits. That was a way for me to allow those that want so play that way be able to and those that want to stay with frost damage also be able to do that as well.

CoI has a good place in pve. There are times when you need to slow a mob to keep it in range. It is like j said for Enhancement Shamans changes in sl. Sometimes you need a slow or ensnare but sometimes you need a massive nuke let Earth Shock be the nuje and frost shock be the utility slow/ensnare.

I CoI can be the slow but if your tank is chain pulling you wont want to slow mobs down while nuking them. At least that is my thought.

As for 2 runes on a 2h. It could be done and be set for 2h frost only. And on this the reason i baked razorice inro mastery is so we could keep its effect and play around with the different runes.

The dnd well i had to find something to do with it. I have no idea what covenant I will go so i was trying to help its damage scale with our mastery and how to keep its damage up and having it move with us was my thoughts on how to do that.

Might of thr frozen waste has been brought up as a way to help increase the damage of 2h frost so it will be on par with dw. As a tuning ability i do not remember all that aas suggested on how its use could do that. But your idea is alao interesting.

Again i haven’t really played unholy in years i think cata i had leved as unholy and switched to frost at max level. And have been bouncing from frost to blood since.

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