This would encourage first timers, lesser geared players and alts, to PVP and help move a larger player base into rated PVP eventually. Randoms should not deter people from playing PVP, and they are. The more, the better imho.
12 Likes
Some will want to move into rated. But most do not, and it should not feel like they are being forced into that.
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The only people who don’t want scaling in random BGs just want to bully people who have less gear, but most of the time they don’t want to come out and say it. It’s about muh character building, muh gear progression.
Keep gearing out of random BGs. It can stay in arena and RBGs. Make the gear you get from random BG honor gear about on par with heroic dungeon gear but it scales up to normal raid level in arenas and RBGs.
5 Likes
No, power progression is important for a lot of people. What they could do, however, is make said progression a little faster and/or more accessible. Example being have honor gear stat at 220, and be relatively inexpensive to upgrade to 233, and maybe allow it to go all the way up to 246.
Just an example but you get the idea. People need to have upgrades to look forward to. Hopping on a char and having it be “done” in terms of gearing/power takes away goals for a lot of people.
2 Likes
Power progression can remain. In arenas and RBGs.
They don’t, actually. Maybe people who’s brains have been so thoroughly groomed by the skinner box reward loop system that they cannot conceive of the fact that people usually just play games for fun, not for the intrinsic reward contained in those games.
I really don’t care what the opinion is of people who think they should earn a bunch of gear and then just beat people who have less gear than them on that merit alone.
And I know the argument to this. “Well, if you’re more skilled in a properly leveled ilvl gap, then you should win anyway!” then why have the gear gap to begin with?
“Well it’s an MMO, so it’s always been degenerate” isn’t an argument either.
2 Likes
You’d deprive random battleground players of progression? Why?
I’ve met a lot of people in random battlegrounds during mop/wod who’d look forward to their next piece of gear, especially because they knew it was bis.
Obviously anecdotal, not representative of the majority (or even a sizable amount in general) but not everybody needs to hop into a random bg the instant they hit 60 and be 100% bis.
I think that it’s very possible to have a satisfying unranked player power progression experience, they just kind of missed the mark with Shadowlands.
This isn’t everybody, though. Some people like having a carrot that makes them stronger.
1 Like
Because gear progression makes PVP less fun for everyone. I don’t care if people who want more gear to overpower lower geared players have less fun. I think it’s a good thing if they have less fun.
I really don’t care what people who need a carrot on a stick think tbh. Maybe they should go play PVE if they want to chase after higher numbers. Their quest for ever higher numbers damages the fun of other players. This Shadowlands system? This is just a natural extension of that mindset.
PVP should be about competition, and unlevel competitions like that are why there are weight class divisions and other divisions in other actual competitions.
Why do the top arena players keep playing? Obviously it’s not for the carrot on the stick at max rank because everyone has the same gear level at those high ranks. Everyone is going to have fully upgraded conq, so what’s the difference then between that and there not being an ilvl at all? Maybe they play just to chase an ever higher rating, or because they just enjoy it for whatever reason. Not because they need a constant reward loop of bigger number.
Imagine if the best players in Quake back in the day got weapons that did more damage and got more health just because they were better players. There was already a massive gap between the good players and the bad ones, which is why Quake’s competitive scene died. Good players already styled on noobs. It’s the same in WoW. A 2100 player at the same ilvl as a hardstuck 1400 player will always win. But on top of that they have a gear advantage too. At least people could choose who they played with back in the days of Quake. Imagine if they were forced to play with really good players getting mixed into their noob friendly servers.
And I know what you’ll say in response to this. “But that’s not an MMO you can’t compare it.” This is just a really bad argument and it always falls back on the intellectual cowardice of “Well WOW has always been like this” as if WoW has not changed several times over its 17 year lifespan. There’s a reason why they brought Classic back, because some people wanted that style of game because retail has changed so much since then. So there’s no reason why this aspect of the game can’t change either.
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We don’t want to bully anybody with less gear, we only want to bully you
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Pretty hard to do that since I only play in the 51-59 bracket. I don’t have to care about being bullied there because I decided to play an alt with less gear. Way more fun.
nice try though lol
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Dang, you’re really awesome. Got me!
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NO. If anything, just make 1 honor gear set, and 1 conquest gear set with no upgrades. Scaling makes some classes feel gimped due to how they benefit from certain stats. Plus, me personally, i wanna feel stronger as i gear up and not fight some guy in quest greens doing the same damage as me in full pvp gear.
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Yeah, with a decent range of pieces to choose from. The more stat combinations the better.
They added some new conquest weapons mid-season that are like agi 1h with mastery, crit agi 2h staff, crit 2h str sword, etc. Super cool.
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Randoms were always the most popular content, and there wasn’t “progression” as exists now that required rating to enjoy that content. They queued for entertainment.
The mistake is in thinking that “I like , therefore it is good for the game”. We actually see breathtakingly bad suggestions often that would be really bad for the game.
It ranks right up there with “When I get [my sweet rewards] everybody benefits and it has a trickle down effect on everybody who plays.”
Devs explained in the past why rank locking of conquest gear is bad for the game. Current dev thinking is that providing PvE style gear progression and lots of incentive to trash lower geared players is good for PvP. Participation seems to prove they were wrong.
2 Likes
We’ve had progression in literally every expansion aside from (kind of) Legion.
I like vaporizing people with my gear advantage but know that it’s not what’s best for the bulk of players.
What are you even on about? I’m saying that something similar to the mop-wod style systems would probably be the most enjoyable for the most people. Easier to hop into and be useful on, but you also get rewarded for playing that char in the form of conq gear, which is accessible via random bgs.
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Let’s look at that WoD PvP “gear progression” you are claiming the gigantic ilvl power gap is equivalent to. WoD honor gear 700 scaled to 730 in PvP. WoD conquest gear 710 scaled to 740 in PvP. Lower geared players were scaled up and got free 690 gear for playing. It took 1-2 days to get a full set of honor gear.
Using today’s scaling there was 3 SL equivalent ilvls between honor gear and conquest gear, and 6 ilvls between newly leveled players and top ilvl players.
No comparison whatever.
You love it. People like you are overwhelmingly attracted to a system that is destroying PvP.
I have read responses from you that are saying the current system is great because it provides maximum progression, and it provides rewarding PvP progression to people who don’t want to do rated PvP. Which is it? The system you are supporting does not resemble the wod system in any way.
They’re both fun in their own way.
I’d prefer Wod, but I’m also really liking what they’ve done with SL, especially after BFA.
Obviously biased as a mid-high tier ranked player, though, but am aware that the SL system isn’t ideal for most people as they’re reluctant to interact with others, or be tested/measured.
It might’ve been all the bots, but games in Warlords never felt close. Matches were always a bloody slaughter one way or another, similar to now. Worse at times, even.
Legion was probably the most even things have ever been, but then you couldn’t pick stats.
I think the opposite would be better actually. They should narrow down gear progression to random BGs only, so that you can play random BGs and get the strongest PvP gear. Rated and gear don’t make sense together.
Have 7/7 honor gear = duelist, and 1/7 = 1400cr conquest right now or so. Slice honor costs two or three times too. Reward duelist gear from rated from the get go. Which again boils down to WoD. Even more liberal.
Preserves short gear progression, but removes rating privilege that ruins random BGs in the first place. There is sizeable portion of players who play randoms for gear, because it replaces progression they can’t or don’t want to do in PvE.
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I liked it when Duelists and Glads were Duelists and Glads because they were good. Not because they hide behind a gear wall.
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Once you hit 1600 everyone has the same gear. Nobody is hitting duelist/glad by hiding behind a gear wall.
So you should have no problem with a template system then?