Random BGs aren't an endgame path

And they never have been during a WoW expansion.

The gap between the best PVP gear available from rated and the best PVP gear from honor has almost always been significant.

Burning Crusade Season 4

  • (Merciless) Honor iLVL is 136
  • (Brutal) Rated iLVL is 154
  • A gap of 18 iLVLs

Wrath of the Lich King Season 4

  • (Furious) Honor iLVL is 239
  • (Wrathful) Rated iLVL is 277
  • A gap of 38 iLVLs

Cataclysm Season 4

  • (Relentless) Honor iLVL is 390
  • (Cataclysmic) Rated iLVL is 403
    *A gap of 13 iLVLs

Mist of Pandaria Season 4

  • (Grievous) Honor iLVL 522
  • (Prideful) Rated iLVL 550
  • A gap of 28 iLVLs

Warlords of Draenor Season 3

  • (Warmongering Combatant) Honor iLVL 730 (In PVP)
  • (Warmongering Gladiator) Rated iLVL 740 (In PVP)
  • A Gap of 10 iLVLs

Legion Season 7

  • (Demonic Gladiator) Honor iLVL 840
  • (Demonic Gladiator) Rated iLVL 960
  • A gap of 120 real iLVLs becomes a 30 iLVL gap in template power

BFA Season 4

  • (Corrupted Gladiator) Honor iLVL 445 (First 3-4 months of conquest quests)
  • (Corrupted Gladiator) Honor iLVL 460 (Eventual conquest quest reward iLVL)
  • (Corrupted Gladiator) Rated iLVL 475
  • A gap of 30 iLVLs for 3 months then a Gap of 15 iLVLs for the remainder of the patch
  • Scaling/PVE Gear/Importance of secondary stats/Corruption make this season harder to quantify. But the 460 quest rewards couldn’t corrupt making them absolutely useless later in the season, the gap between a rated player with optimal gear/corruptions/Azerite and a pure Random BG player was probably the biggest gap to ever exist.

Shadowlands Season 1

  • (Sinful Combatant) Honor iLVL 184 for the first 7 weeks
  • (Sinful Combatant) Honor iLVL 200 (Eventual renown unlock)
  • (Sinful Gladiator) Rated iLVL 226
  • A brief gap of 42 iLVLs with the caveat that high rated players will only have 226 for less than half their slots during this time period.
  • An eventual gap of 26 iLVLs

Shadowlands obviously isn’t an expansion catering to people that only play Random BGs. But I fail to see how this is a massive outlier compared to past expansions.

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They were for me before Legion…

I think you are forgetting you could get conquest doing random BGs, and as of right now, you cannot get any conquest outside of rated PVP in SL.

During WoD, I had many toons with full conquest and did no rated PVP or PVE.

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I accounted for completing the conquest cap in BFA.

Only other expansion where that’s relevant is possibly WoD, where you’d have to complete the battle ground dailies every single day for almost 2 months to purchase a single piece of conquest gear.

At best we can use that to up the average iLVL of a WoD player by 2 iLVLs in an expansion where the gap was already fairly small.

BGs will never offer gear comparative to rated content or even PvE. To even get gear equivalent of M+ 15s required you to be at a dumb level of arena rating to begin with.

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Can someone direct me to where the changes are that have folks upset?

That is not how it was. Check your facts.

And this is why that gearing system was so great for rated and unrated players alike. But when PVP gear can be used in PVE without penalty, it has to be gated behind a long grind and follow the same large ilvl gaps.

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https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/shadowlands-pvp-rewards/728426?u=graendoll-emerald-dream

They removed conquest from all unrated activities and made the weekly vault earned by honor from rated PVP only.

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Do you realize what board you are posting on??

…better get that flame shield up, incoming! :laughing:

:popcorn:

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That’s literally just WoD though.

Which is also the same expansion where the PVP community become so hostile to the lead PVP dev (Brian Holinka) that he had to delete his twitter account and leave the World of Warcraft development team. (He’s since returned)

Maybe you should have been more vocal during that expansion when people where issuing death threats to the person who created the version of the game you enjoy.

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So, this seems like it punishes casual players? Am I interpreting that correctly?

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I think it will be ok… what I think will suffer is Epics BG’s. Can’t wait for 1 hour queue for it as Horde .

It doesn’t punish anyone.

It just doesn’t provide competitive rewards for players that don’t do minimal amounts of rated PVP.

Rated PVP doesn’t require more time than Random BGs, it’s still an easily accessible way to spend your time as a casual PVP player.

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I was too busy playing BG after BG to bother with the forums.

Also, we’re people issuing death threats because the gearing system was bad? No.

You are talking about PVP gear, not arena comps and class balance.

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THANK YOU! I’ve been wondering what the actual ilvls were, it’s been so long–was this the first season or the third?

People did Ashran for conquest, way faster, especially with premades.

People hated WoD PvP because of class tuning and design, not gear systems. But as a priest I loved every second of WoD’s class design, except for DK’s in season 1.

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Then why do the rewards have to be segregated if they are so similar?

Rating allowing a higher conquest cap worked very well. Rated players got gear faster and there was light at the end of the tunnel for unrated players. All while keeping the ilvl disparity in check.

I think the third. It might have been 15 ilvl in earlier seasons

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Ah yes, Ashran the beloved PVP game mode.

I personally remember seeing twitch chat and Brian Holinkas twitter literally flooded with “Take Ashran and shove it up your ASSran”

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And I personally played it a lot and enjoyed it.

Stop trying to make this about everything bad in WoD.

You brought up that SL gearing is basically the same as it was in previous expansions. Maybe stick to your own topic?

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Because rated BGs validate that you can consistently beat an opposing team of an expected skill level.

BGs have no way of validating that you’re even at your keyboard or that your opponents aren’t bots.

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Once again, you brought up PVP gearing, systems and now you are talking about bots?

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