Really enjoy the spec, but I’m finding the ramp up time to be exhausting just to get to our burn window compared to other classes.
Right now, starting on a new target and assuming we have enough insanity pooled, we have to:
Vampiric Touch(1.5sec+GCD)->
Mindbender(GCD)->
DarkAscension(1.5sec+GCD)->
Devouring Plague(GCD)->
Void Torrent(3sec+GCD->
So it takes us +/- 10 seconds and 5 separate actions to get to using a +/- 9 second window of burst that can be pretty haphazard depending on procs and insanity generation. As the fight progress you can occasionally knock out re-applying VP from that rotation, but you’re still left with more actions and more time spent getting into the burn window than the actual window itself returns.
It’s also difficult to master getting to that window with any efficiency, and then once you do get that down, you realize how little return it begins to feel with Voidweaver (Especially with Voidweaver being under tuned compared to current Archon). Can we consider possibly doing one of several things to make this an easier play style?
-Can we move some of the cooldowns off the GCD (Mindbender? DA?)?
-Can we make the window longer and more rewarding?
-Can the Void Torrent proc the Cooldown(s) as well?
I’m spit balling here because I do love the class and the spec, but after having my hands on it in live I can’t help but feel how cumbersome the whole setup-to-payoff has been, especially compared to other classes I’ve been leveling.
Thanks for reading.
7 Likes
Wouldn’t you want mindbender out sooner to get your insanity rolling?
Edit:nvm. Went back and read your sequence again
GCD begins at cast start. It’s over when the cast ends.
Edit: this is to point out that removing the cast time for Dark Ascension doesn’t change the total time of all that.
Agreed. I like that Voidweaver does change your rotation, but it feels like it wasn’t well integrated into the greater SP kit as a whole. I honestly think Dark Ascension and Void Eruption should be instant cast. There used to be a PvP talent for it, and it helped make SP’s ramp up much smoother (especially when playing with Mindbender). Totally agree with Mindbender/Shadowfiend being an OGCD, it has never felt like it has enough of an impact to warrant being a GCD.
1 Like
The price we pay for Power Infusion is too much to bear
6 Likes
It would be great if they just moved it into the Oracle hero tree.
Thank you. Agree on everything. Priest is my main, but my alt is an Outlaw Rogue, and it boggles my mind that priest has ONE ability not on the GCD for combat (Power Infusion) and my Rogue has SEVEN.
Like I don’t need the Priest to be like that intense, but it would be nice if the specific cooldowns (DA, VE, MB) could not be a GCD+cast like most every other DPS class in the game.
3 Likes
I find playing VoidWeaver that you are fighting to get in DPs and Voidblasts in the short window and everything is competing. The game seems to imply that you want to pour DPs into the Entropic Rift to increase the damage, but in doing so, you sometimes miss the other signature ability, VoidBlast. Maybe the Entropic Rift window should be longer, but slightly less damage to offset? Granted I know there is a choice node with having VoidBlast increase the duration, but that isn’t as exciting.
Also the AI on Entropic Rift is weird when a target dies. And it is slow; so the talent that makes it slow enemies is kinda meh, and the 20% movement while casting Torrent is meh as well since it seems the game is implying one talent is more pvp vs pve oriented, but both fall a bit flat.
Lastly, I hate dead talents and feel they should be addressed rather than letting them rot for 2 expansions. PWShield is so weak, along with the shield from Mental Fortitude. This in turn makes the Void Shield talent null because you can’t even generate enough damage to regen the shield before it is gone. It only begins to actually show at the end of the expansion when you greatly outgear the content, and even then the benefit is extremely neglible. That talent was PERFECT in Legioin where it was a window of time that allowed for damage>healing conversion, but they changed it to be worse.
2 Likes
Im the only one finding voidweaver just less fun to play compared to archon? I mean i dont wanna be that edgy Eddy that does and likes something else than the masses just because i wanna be different. But i honestly do enjoy the SMG playstyle of sending multiple mf:i in a row for insane burst. In masive pulls the tripple halo does pump alot too.
Idk maybe thats just because archon does more damage atm, maybe its because of the nature of current content (normal and hcs) where everything dies in seconds. Visuals are cool and torent while moving is nice…but thats about it for me. Atleast for now…maybe when we are presented with some challenging stuff where the setup does matter i will change my mind…but now archon for me is superior even in terms of fun.
1 Like
You like what you like. I just personally enjoy the shorter loop with VoidWeaver, and never really cared for Halo. Lots of people enjoy Archon tho, and it’s easy to see why.
I think the ramp time puts off a lot of people from currently enjoying shadow. I think the spec is actually really fun at least as archon, but the ramp is still quite insane.
I have seen suggestions from the feedback threads about this and a lot of people just suggest giving Shadow like 15 insanity at the start of pulls like they do with other ramp resource specs like Balance druid. This would make it so you can start your CDs a lot sooner.
They took away the ability to build insanity outside of combat basically outside of I think 1 thing, which doesn’t build much. This was great of them to do because I imagine that is annoying gameplay, it is for healers whenever we run into an issue that is similar. However they didn’t actually address the issue, just removed a workaround.
edit: one of my buddies leveled a priest for the first time in a while, hes pretty casual and his first thoughts playing shadow at level 80 were “it takes too long to actually start doing damage, with everything dying so fast it feels really bad”. which is true, even when things dont die fast it still feels bad as well.
The issue is the mastery. The solution is to change it. You wouldn’t really feel like you were ramping if you didn’t gain a mastery benefit from Devouring Plague being up on the target.
Ye ofc, different ppl have different tastes.
Im just saying from the perspecrive of seeing feedback on forums youtube twitch with max etc…where everybody were dumping on archon since it supposedly was a bad gameplay but way stronger than voidweaver which is cooler and way more fun. Ive tried a bit on beta on dummies but didnt get much further. So im just saying that im personaly suprised how “fun” archon realy is compared to voidweaver thats all.
But its just personal taste, i can have a lot of reasons for it like the fact that archon plays exactly the same as DF except using halo and mf:i beign way more satisfying to press. But ive skipped two seasons in DF to play cata and wrath…so im not that dampened from df playstyle like others. Maybe its the fact that the archon burst with our cds and trinkets is exactly enough to kill bosses, basicaly bosses dying with our dps cd fading and our damage peaking. That could be factor that while youre almost useless on trash…there are not realy that many classes that can challenge the peak dps during our burst window… etc etc.
It may, and propably will change with time…ill see.
It’s funny for me to hear that Archon is the “un-fun” spec by the community because Archon pretty much is the same play-style as shadow already was, though supersized.
So it’s like are people calling the old play-style un-fun, or have they not actually played it?
I personally think Archon is a lot of fun and, like I said, takes the old play-style and gives it a supercharge. I’m just trying to make Voidweaver work better as it’s a new and somewhat different way to emphasis Shadow’s key styles of damage.
Well it could be the fact that you played for two years and now with the new expansion you gonna play exactly the same with practicaly zero changes for another two years. Which is understandable since shadow is faaaaar from beign a perfect spec with 0 changes needed.
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I think archon is honestly really fun, I enjoy it as shadow a lot. That doesn’t mean there aren’t major issues with shadow though.
The complaints in the OP are very valid, I mean the ramp for this spec is ridiculous. It is the worst ramp in the game now by far. You won’t get people to stick around on a spec that takes 20+ seconds to get into their CDs lmao, and if you pvp then getting interrupted or CCed during that time just extends that (though shadow is great in pvp rn to be fair). The ramp doesn’t feel good at all, so they need to figure that out.
Aside from that, shadow is the only spec in the game with their major cd being casted. I don’t think thats good when shadow has no form of interrupt protection in pvp outside of precog, nor do I think thats enjoyable in pve either. This should probably just change to be instant.
3 Likes
Thanks for that input, and I agree too that Archon feels great…though it’s hard to be that immobile again after playing VW 
I think there’s another big issue with this since I’ve been raiding/dungeoning with it in live: De-sync’ing. Getting 3 casts off baseline (one of them being a 3 second cast) has been an absolute challenge to keep them going off together. On a dummy it’s asinine…but in an encounter where you’re fighting for movement you might cast, be forced to move for 2-3 seconds, cast again, move, get that third cast off and now you’ve killed VW window by half of having all your proc’s in sync. AND IT BUILDS. Some fights I’ll find my cooldowns are now all 15 seconds off of each other just because of movement mechanics and weaving in defensives. It is not optimal and it becomes of Sophies choice of delaying your dps window or just getting out whatever you can very sub-optimally.