It does, especially if you’re just looking for a normal raid.
I used to raid with a group of players who actively avoided M+. They are still around but they don’t typically reach AOTC. But, the point is these types of guilds exist.
I can understand that and I doubt any “Normal” raiding guild would require you doing M+
i would say - at the beginning of the season, just do minimal amounts of m+, but it helps to have the option for tier…trust me, you don’t wanna go 6 weeks without your set…so the more options in your vault the better.
then after the creation catalyst is open, you can probably retire M+ 
(this depends on how important gearing is for you, ofc…if it’s going to ruin the game for you, play PvP as a secondary instead?)
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Not sure about that. I’ve spammed M+ dungeons to get a specific piece of loot.
Unbound Changeling for example
PVP has it’s own gear, so if it was about the gear that wouldn’t work out. I don’t really care how slow gearing is, I just never want to see the inside of an M+ again.
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They’re out there, found one myself. Just have to look and be willing to move out, move on to another try quicker, rather than holding on hoping it will get better in whatever guild you land in.
Yea a single piece of bis but that’s the exception and not the rule.
Sitting here giving genuine thought to this scenario, I’m honestly doubting that a group of people casual enough to consider normal raiding their end-game content would care if you do M+ or not. The game is setup where you can progress into raid content with LFR/Heroic Dungeon gear.
That said, I would expect a group with that level of commitment to downing content to not be very fun to play the game with. Unless you enjoy 600 wipes because Tom the Holy Priest clicks out of his spell book to raid heal, etc.
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I have not seen any M+ players complain that raiders get as high lvl gear as them in 20-30s. I could be wrong. With a quick search and you will find many threads of raiders crying a rivers.
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it’s about getting tier pieces from the vault, not the actual gear itself.
if you’re an aspiring raider, you need the pieces, so def have a secondary activity to improve your RNG.
it’s going to be expected of you, unless you’re in an uber casual guild that’s gonna wipe a lot.
There are way more heroic level raiders
with aotc
that still do that
than you might imagine.
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My old heroic raid guild was like that. We never got AOTC because the guild leader was friends with the awful tank. I wasted tens of thousands of gold on consumables, it was horrible.
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What did M+ do to you to receive such contempt?
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I’m just tired of it. I don’t like timed content, and I especially don’t like weekly affixes. Running the same dungeons every day, on a timer, with the threat of a random volcano effect spraying up my butt, isn’t my idea of a good time. I don’t know why people like it so much. It’s been a complete mystery to me.
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No, my guild is an AOTC guild where only about half of our members do M+, and the other half never even touch it. Will you be lesser geared than others by not doing M+? Sure, especially for a bit. But heroic raid content does not demand BiS gear.
Oh, I believe it. I got started healing in Wrath and clicked. Luckily for me back then spamming Wild Growth was adequate for normal raiding. Lol
see, you can tell this is nonsense because barely any actual raiders post here. what you’re doing is taking the opinions of a few and applying it to the many.
I also don’t even understand what your first sentence is supposed to mean
Everything on these forums is doing that bud. The majority of wow players never come to the forums.
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Just tell them as soon as you join, guys im not that big into m+ but I’ll definitely be there for raids.
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I think if other people in the guild are doing it and you’re like the lone man out, that’s an issue tbh.
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