I would agree, however I feel like it would still cause a lot of unhappiness and hostility within the community. But again I would love this, but I also know many would despise this, it would be a uphill struggle to convince the majority of this.
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That would likely be a crap show in particular with no Determination Buff. Plus the toxicity would be through the roof with each wipe coming with calls for mass kicks.
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tbh i forgot about the realm forums, didn’t know there was a guild one at all. Nor didn’t know other websites had em. I been only using the in game ones with no luck throughout MoP-Early shadowlands.
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The most toxic players I’ve encountered are also some of the worst players I’ve encountered. It goes hand in hand.
I’ve been in this situation before and tried to foster player improvement. There are challenges with this though. Do you make everything more difficult, for example, 19 other players for 1?
Or for M+, I remember helping someone get KSM who said they wanted to improve, but never put any time or effort into it. We provided them information and feedback on improving and they typically never listened or either simply could not change their performance at all.
I also have people who can raid pretty well, but then barely can do an 18 because you have to use so much more utility in M+.
Or what about the player who dies 30 seconds into 2/3 of every pull in raid?
If I have only have enough time to run say three M+ in an evening and I want to push 25’s, is it my responsibility to go run 18’s with someone who has learning and practice to do?
If there is anything that is really wrong with all of this, is there aren’t enough solid guides out there for players learning. I remember Preach doing a big series for newer players, why isn’t that plastered and pinned somewhere?
There are way, way too many Youtube guides out there that are “Pick these talents, pick these leggos, pick these conduits. Haha there ya go, blow up them meterzs!”
How many players look at RWF guilds go at it and wonder what the heck the secret sauce is? I couldn’t tell you. I’m certainly not as good as them, but I can’t for the life of me figure out what they’re doing so differently. Liquid Max ran like 50 keys this season and will get the Cryptic Hero title. How many players are out there running like 5x that or more that aren’t even close to it?
So, yes, there is a knowledge gap out there. Is it my responsibility to dedicate significant amounts of my time as well as other peoples to the benefit of learning players? No
Is it RWF type players’ responsibility to dedicate significant amounts of time to helping good players become great/top players? No
Is it a players responsibility to practice, learn, and improve at their pace and their own pace only? Yes
Should there be substantially more information out there, actual meaningful information? Maybe, but isn’t part of the game practicing and figuring these things out?
What’s the point of all of this? I might not even know, but I’m posting my thoughts on it anyway.
If I had any advice: Don’t run your own key. Don’t pug. Join a guild of like-minded players who are reasonably better than you. If you eventually pull ahead of them, find another group of like-minded players reasonably better than you. You’ll likely improve at the game ten-fold and it takes a lot of time (years) and dedication.
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I agree with you there are defiantly people who wont adapt, learn, or refuse to pull their own weight and this is also as common as the hostility within the raiding scene. There is no perfect solution, and the best one is to find a guild of like minded people.
I stopped reading right here.
No one cares what “content creators” think
Also id like to add that there a different understanding of what ‘raiding’ means to individual players.
There are ‘raiders’ like myself that enjoying progression raiding - the many wipes on a boss until you get the puzzle right and it falls. The enjoyment is in the hours spent with friends/guildies, the conversation, the comrardity. We come together as a team and all bring different things to any given raid night (eg i provide feasts/flasks, someone else focuses on pots, someone else on tomes etc etc).
There are ‘raiders’ who enjoy raid loot and are willing to put up with all the things listed above for the reward and usually stick around for reclears for wcl parsing numbers.
There are ‘raiders’ who only focus on the reward (aotc achieve, mount, gear items) and once its attained they no longer enjoy raiding.
The major issue with adding a new player (regardless of skill level) is finding out what type of raider they are and if it caters to your team. Alot of players are rewards only focused and dont want to spend time teaching others what to do - they want it to die as fast as possible and move on.
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I mostly fall under the reward catagory. I don’t practically enjoy raiding, its ok at best when with friendly people, and i don’t mind sticking around for everyone to get what they want. However I also really just want to get at most a full heroic gear set, the mount, and then just sit there casually as i do rated pvp for… rewards, then sit in random bg’s or world content all day. Or in another game doing something else. My biggest issue is I don’t want to enter a new guild at the blue and commit to a schedule every week regardless of what happens in my life. However most guild’s have a schedule you must follow to be in it, thus I won’t waste everyones time for trying to get in and compete with other people for a raid spot. I would prefer to just casually que up through the premade group finder, get in and get out. But this doesn’t mean i’m not willing to help and teach people who are struggling either. But as many here have said its “best to find a guild like minded as yourself”.
What a shocker.
And the overwhelming majority of the player base didn’t bother with raids because leveling was THE game. Raids were just something to do to kill time when you hit max level, they weren’t what WoW was about at all.
If that’s the game you’re into Classic is still kicking around.
Many players do and there is nothing wrong with that. It does help to make that known to a team/guild/comminity etc before joining. I told my current guild that i want aotc every tier, some mythic prog until we hit the wall, glory achievment and m+ (ksm/portals/vault rewards - we timed 22’s and happy with that) and im not looking to commit anymore time than i currently do. They were perfectly ok with that as there is a majority of likeminded players in guild. Most of us have family/work commitments and we do what is fun until it becomes not fun then we stop.
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The raiding community is only hostile/toxic because of the time commitment needed to progress in it and the group failure for ANYONE below a certain threshold. Its in response to blizzards design plain and simple.
I think going back to only normal/heroic would be an overall improvement(maybe keeping lfr as a pure story mode so people unable to raid can at least see the story that goes into raids), it would greatly help with the ridiculous power creep each expansion. However if this were the case I think heroic would need to be scaled up in difficulty, not to current mythic levels but enough that it would still pose a good challenge to most guilds.
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One time i whispered an officer who was recruiting for their guild, i was intent on getting ahead of the curve nyalotha for that void drake. He was looking for people to do heroic then into mythic. I told him i have experience with every class however my best is as a paladin. But I whispered him on my warlock.
He wanted me to join on my warlock but I also mentioned I had no interest in mythic raiding. He tried to convince me otherwise, I told him i could try it but more likely than not i wont be doing mythic. He invited me anyways and i got pulled into the raid group. They geared up through the raid pretty fast and we got ahead of the curve. They found out through a forum post that i hated mythic raiding and i was kicked the same day.
I logged on and whispered the guild leader what happened and he said “ask your recruiting officer” so i did, and he said that i lied to him about wanting to be in the mythic raid group and how i used them to get ahead of the curve and how he wouldn’t talk about it any further. Which I don’t understand why he thought I lied, i told him i wasn’t interested in it, and the most i would do is try it. Didn’t even get the chance to try it.
OP, good post and hostile is an appropriate, accurate word to choose.
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Whiners as usual.
WoW is a competitive game. If you are not competitive, you would be on a disadvantage.
You would have less gear, and less toys.
A whiner whining on LFR? You would whine for a lot of things becoz there are many items in the game that you wont have.
already got a few posts here either flagging, or mocking it because its to long or because i used the words, ff14, gatekeeping, and asmongold. Hostile is a very common thing in and outside of the game it seems.
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You beat me to it.
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The game achievements themselves stated ANY DIFFICULTY and that includes LFR, as Wow’s own website says. For months people knew of it being ANY DIFFICULTY.
And no one had a problem with it or spoke up against it.
Only when the circumstances were changed days before the Season starts and players started speaking up about how it isnt right to change it, thats when some people, like you it seems, started to have an issue with LFR getting it.
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My favorite threads are the ones who are mocking people who are upset, and then saying “just buy a wow token and get a carry” which is the exact same thing these people think they are doing through lfr, just without spending $20 on a wow token to give that gold to someone else.
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