It’s fine as an add on to self segregate people into their interests. The add on itself is not a problem. It’s the actual implementation without proper segregation avenues and assurances that’s an issue.
The problem is even putting in all caps “GOING FOR KEY COMPLETION” in the title of the group does nothing to stop leavers and toxic psychopaths, because raiderio has distorted the whole invitation system.
Previously it was just ilv. Now, you get invited into 10+ key based on raiderio score. So many of the people in the group are not only coming to finish the dungeon and get their weekly cache, but with the expectation that their raiderio score will see a noticeable jump as a result of the run so they can keep getting invited to higher keys.
The result is that you have an add on that has made it far more likely to deal with impatient psychopaths no matter what, because the add on cannot filter by personality. What it does is amplify those toxic personalities by the sheer importance the weighing of the add on score places on timing keys.
Solution
Someone suggested the LFD feature could have a filter for time pushes and completion, so people are segregated based on goals.
Under the completion filter, people who leave before 15-20 minutes after the timer has expired would receive a penalty of their next M+ key not awarding them loot upon completion and not being eligible for the weekly cache consideration.
That way, people who strictly want to push keys and chase raiderio score increases can still dump keys under the agreement that they just care for key pushes, while the rest can get their keys completed with punitive systems to prevent sabotage.
Something has to be done about the complete impunity people know they have since they don’t reside on the same server or have to interact much with people whose keys they frivolously ruin.
It does suck when people don’t read the description, or don’t care. I remember learning to tank in Legion with my un-retired blood DK. I posted “chill learning group” for a Halls of Valor 0 and ended up getting a rushing, impatient, toxic DPS DK anyway.
S’why I have a hard time wanting to enter the pug world these days, and the only keys I run are with guildmates and friends I trust.
Problem is, any system like this will punish plenty of decent players. There’s a difference between joining a completion group that doesn’t look like it’ll make the timer and joining a completion group that looks like it’s going to take 2+ hours just to complete a +10 because people who have no business doing keys somehow got into one.
I don’t make a habit of leaving keys. It’s an extreme rarity for me. When it does happen, it’s usually early in the run, and specifically because I know it’s going nowhere. I wait it out until the first boss.
Not saying that chronic key leavers are justified (they’re not), but you’d be hitting plenty of people who didn’t need to be hit with something like this.
That’s not really a solution. Not sure why you’d hate M+.
Kinda think ilvl being used for this was a bad idea to begin with. Back in the old days folk would use a mod to see it and things got toxic. It wasn’t can you actually do the content it was do you have the ilvl.
Now raderio just sounds like another run of that plus some.
I don’t do mythic or keys or whatnot so take my thoughts with a grain of salt.
That’s why the timer after they key runs out is spitballing. I was generous with a 15-20 min timer. A 27 minute run only becomes a 42-47 minute run before you can leave without penalty.
That’s far less time than it takes to do a Heroic Darkshore, for perspective.
It’s good that you’re not a chronic leaver or a psychopath, but far too many people are ruining the learning and progression process of people in Mythic+.
It’s hard to create a community where people can pick up the ropes and improve at harder difficulties when you have people come in expecting everyone knows each specific skip and pull strategy and turning into passive aggressive jerks on the second or third wipe and leaving.
I can’t imagine being a returning tank to the game, because the expectations and behavior are totally antisocial. I’m lucky to be a pretty decently performing DPS whose only job is to interrupt properly and pull passable numbers without dying.
As others said I think there’s plenty of times to be justified in leaving. We didn’t sign up to carry dps or heal the morons or Tank for people who do no dmg.
Also, about not imagining being a returning tank? You literally have the best out of anyone. You can leave and join almost any key you want and get into another one within a few queues.
You can’t be saying that with a straight face, in +10 keys people are asking for 1k+ io. In 12 it’s not uncommon to see people scoffing at anyone under 1200.
Besides, that’s the whole point of this filter, so you don’t have to “carry” anyone by choosing the pushing category.
If you think raider-io promotes elitism and toxicity, you are part of the problem.
What I meant in what I was saying is getting a group where you’re getting almost nothing done. Wiping on packs repeatedly, wiping on bosses repeatedly, etc. I’ve had runs where we barely reach the first boss, and then when we do, fail simply due to a lack of damage/sheer mechanical failure/else.
Coming from a perspective of having played all three roles, I’ve had this happen a handful of times, and it’s disconcerting.
And the only way they can “retune” the content so a solution isn’t required would be to drastically nerf the content and remove anything remotely challenging from the game.
If you are going for the angle of “people should be blindly invited, ragardless of experience or gear” then the content can only be completely trivial.
The issue is, you can’t judge gearscore/ilvl/Raider io with out judging right click inspect. It was the og version of all of these. In vanilla if you wanted to do anything you got inspected, is all the same.
I absolutely do think that anyone who meets whatever in-game requirement there is to enter the content, should be able to enter it, and have a reasonable chance to complete it. There shouldn’t be a laundry list of hoops to jump through to get there. This is a video game, not a job. It should be accessible to anyone who wants to participate.
If the tryhards and elitists want to segregate themselves, then I guess they need a tool like this. So here we are.
I guess we just have an entirely different perspective on what this game is and should be.
Just seemed like it was when all that started to get codified that folk stopped caring at all about knowing the class the skill and the dungeons and such. Many got downright rude about it. Toxic if you will.
It all became a number.
Again I’m not into the high end dungeon or even raid scene these days. I just knew what it was like back then and now I see folk talking about it in the same way with Raider Io and such.
Personally, I am happy that the game gives avenues for both the casuals and people that like a challenge.
Weird you want every bit of content designed for your personal playstyle, while throwing out disparaging comments about anyone that would play differently.
PS. Every bit of the game is accessible to 100% of the population. There is not a laundry list of hoops to participate in pugs doing challenging content. Its literally 1 “hoop”. “Have you done this or something similar before?”