I just had a group I joined on my alt. Just trying to get my weekly done. I play my alt for one boss in mythic so it gets even less playtime than my main. I raid, I do my weeklys, and I go do other things.
This addon....is the personification of cancer.
Lets rewind the clock. Towards the beginning of Nighthold I was playing my druid tanking for my mythic raid for the last three bosses. Getting my weekly done was a breeze as a Guardian tank with the ilevel I was at. I quit playing after Guldan was dead. I come back several months later, and this cancerous addon has spread like a tumor to every M+ pug group listed. What was I supposed to do? Apparently none of my old runs were counted on my "IO score". I basically solely relied on guild runs because despite having ran dungeons for months beforehand on top of clearing mythic content when it was relevant was now....all irrelevant.
Today, I'm running King's Rest - this group required some arbitrary RaiderIO benchmark 1k/1.1k etc (some crap like that) so I had to basically sell myself on my alt as a 7/8 mythic raider looking to get my weekly done blah blah blah. Turns out the players still didn't know how to dispell the fear adds at the beginning of the instance, the tank face pulled too many mobs, the healer was inept, the ghuun spawns bugged etc. - standard pug problems. However, I don't let it get me down I continue on with the key for my weekly. After a wipe the tank says "we should just quit now", the healer responds "ya gg". Then they all leave the group one after the other.
This type of attitude is the cancer I mentioned earlier. Apparently, this god forsaken addon doesn't count keys that a player leaves before completion. This obviously encourages players who want to reliably pug to LEAVE keys if they believe they won't be timed. This also simultaneously removes all legitimacy from this addon to be some type of measuring stick. If I cared to invest the time knowing how the system works now - I could easily game it. However, I'd rather just pug groups knowing some might not be as smooth as others, and I'd rather not have an addon/system in game encouraging pugs to leave and downgrade a 10 key to a 9 to artificially and falsely maintain their arbitrary M+ score.
I'd love to know what the official Blizzard stance/response is about this addon. Specifically, on how it motivates players to leave a key in progress. If the addon can't make the changes necessary so that it accurately represents information - then blizzard should get rid of it imo. I've had countless people leave keys this expansion, and now I have the context as to why.
3 Likes
I heard it's moving to Las Vegas
2 Likes
Not sure why finshing a +10 for couple dungeons and getting a 1k score means you are good..
Why do people invite others based on this Raider.IO crap?
Do you know how easy it is to finish a +10 now? lol
People are just not into doing more than 1 dungeon a week.. not everyone is into that thing... 45min for 7 dungeons if not more on +10 just to get a high score? no thanks pass.
I'd rather finish my one time +10 weekly, and I could careless what others thinks about me.
Why do people invite others based on this Raider.IO crap?
Do you know how easy it is to finish a +10 now? lol
People are just not into doing more than 1 dungeon a week.. not everyone is into that thing... 45min for 7 dungeons if not more on +10 just to get a high score? no thanks pass.
I'd rather finish my one time +10 weekly, and I could careless what others thinks about me.
2 Likes
Don't know what you expect Blizzard to do, I doubt they have any plans on removing it. People are going to use whatever the most efficient tool there is to weed people out so they can have "safe" mythic+ groups. Hell, even if Blizz did get rid of it the community would find a new tool to use very quickly and then we'd all be whining about that.
For the record I'm not a fan of raider.io or anything that weeds people out based on some arbitrary values, but it is what it is. Blizzard has pushed this fast-paced, toxic gameplay upon us in the past few years and well, this is the result of it.
For the record I'm not a fan of raider.io or anything that weeds people out based on some arbitrary values, but it is what it is. Blizzard has pushed this fast-paced, toxic gameplay upon us in the past few years and well, this is the result of it.
I understand why it exists. I really do, however I'm equally surprised why there is no community push by people with low IO scores to just do M+ together.
I could get a higher IO score if I cared, mainly play with just friends now. Pugging is just far less fun especially when everything is measured against time and an arbitrary score.
There is then the mentality, as you mentioned, where if you will not time it then people just quit. To a greater extent, sometimes wiping just once or twice will cause people to leave outright even if the key could still be completed on time. The easy way is turning more and more into the only way and it is honestly not worth doing things with strangers anymore.
When I do dungeons I do not even look at IO and just invite based on what looks good. I will take Warrior tanks, I will take the resto shaman, Its less of a hassle for me and more enjoyable. I could go through a vetting process and then cry when the 1.2K DH does not know how to kill an explosive making the casters kill every single one. Pugging is completely random process with or without IO, at least in my experience.
There is then the mentality, as you mentioned, where if you will not time it then people just quit. To a greater extent, sometimes wiping just once or twice will cause people to leave outright even if the key could still be completed on time. The easy way is turning more and more into the only way and it is honestly not worth doing things with strangers anymore.
When I do dungeons I do not even look at IO and just invite based on what looks good. I will take Warrior tanks, I will take the resto shaman, Its less of a hassle for me and more enjoyable. I could go through a vetting process and then cry when the 1.2K DH does not know how to kill an explosive making the casters kill every single one. Pugging is completely random process with or without IO, at least in my experience.
1 Like
This horse is already dead. Out of respect for the dead, please find something else to beat.
1 Like
11/05/2018 06:39 PMPosted by ThunderçatzI could get a higher IO score if I cared, mainly play with just friends now. Pugging is just far less fun especially when everything is measured against time and an arbitrary score.
There is then the mentality, as you mentioned, where if you will not time it then people just quit. To a greater extent, sometimes wiping just once or twice will cause people to leave outright even if the key could still be completed on time. The easy way is turning more and more into the only way and it is honestly not worth doing things with strangers anymore.
When I do dungeons I do not even look at IO and just invite based on what looks good. I will take Warrior tanks, I will take the resto shaman, Its less of a hassle for me and more enjoyable. I could go through a vetting process and then cry when the 1.2K DH does not know how to kill an explosive making the casters kill every single one. Pugging is completely random process with or without IO, at least in my experience.
This has been my experience as well. The groups who have had raiderio requirements have not made a damn bit of difference in my experience either. Again, this is because they can just leave keys that go bad and inflate their score until they get a group that holds it together.
As someone who has raided heroic/mythic (when either were the high end) for as long as I've played the game - this addon has no legitimacy and encourages toxicity.
1 Like
Few things about raider.io:
They make their scores based off of blizzard's leaderboard for mythic+ runs, their formula involves the keystone level, time completed, affixes etc.
It's not affiliated with Blizzard so not like they will shut it down.
Better than gear score by a land slide.
Also Mythic Raider does not mean you are good at Mythic+ they are completely different fishes. If I had someone who was 8/8 mythic uldir but had 0 mythic +5 or higher done and someone of the same class who was 0/8 mythic uldir and had done every dungeon on +10 or higher in time, I'm going to invite the person who is 0/8.
Raids are all about boss mechanics and killing the boss, Mythic+ is all about killing Mobs ASAP in an effective non-wiping manner while aware of the affixes which can make the mobs a pain to deal with like bolstering, skittish etc. Mythic+ is all about speed while raiding is just about meeting dps checks and doing the mechanics right.
Just remember being good at Raids does not mean your good at Mythic+ and vice versa just like being good a Mythic Raider does not mean your good at Ranked PvP.
They make their scores based off of blizzard's leaderboard for mythic+ runs, their formula involves the keystone level, time completed, affixes etc.
It's not affiliated with Blizzard so not like they will shut it down.
Better than gear score by a land slide.
Also Mythic Raider does not mean you are good at Mythic+ they are completely different fishes. If I had someone who was 8/8 mythic uldir but had 0 mythic +5 or higher done and someone of the same class who was 0/8 mythic uldir and had done every dungeon on +10 or higher in time, I'm going to invite the person who is 0/8.
Raids are all about boss mechanics and killing the boss, Mythic+ is all about killing Mobs ASAP in an effective non-wiping manner while aware of the affixes which can make the mobs a pain to deal with like bolstering, skittish etc. Mythic+ is all about speed while raiding is just about meeting dps checks and doing the mechanics right.
Just remember being good at Raids does not mean your good at Mythic+ and vice versa just like being good a Mythic Raider does not mean your good at Ranked PvP.
11/05/2018 06:44 PMPosted by VoidarcaneFew things about raider.io:
They make their scores based off of blizzard's leaderboard for mythic+ runs, their formula involves the keystone level, time completed, affixes etc.
It's not affiliated with Blizzard so not like they will shut it down.
Better than gear score by a land slide.
Also Mythic Raider does not mean you are good at Mythic+ they are completely different fishes. If I had someone who was 8/8 mythic uldir but had 0 mythic +5 or higher done and someone of the same class who was 0/8 mythic uldir and had done every dungeon on +10 or higher in time, I'm going to invite the person who is 0/8.
Raids are all about boss mechanics and killing the boss, Mythic+ is all about killing Mobs ASAP in an effective non-wiping manner while aware of the affixes which can make the mobs a pain to deal with like bolstering, skittish etc. Mythic+ is all about speed while raiding is just about meeting dps checks and doing the mechanics right.
Just remember being good at Raids does not mean your good at Mythic+ and vice versa just like being good a Mythic Raider does not mean your good at Ranked PvP.
I don't think the score accounts for affixes. They track what affixes you scored on, but does not have bearing on the score itself afaik.
I absolutely could not imagine pugging high level keys without the use of raider.IO! There's not a better way to get a general idea of someone's capabilities.
What else would we go off of? ilvl LOL!? are you going to link me an achievement from timing a 15 last expansion LOL!?
You guy's just need to be more honest with yourself.. I mean if your best times key is a 6, why would you apply to a 10? Do you really want to humiliate yourself?
What else would we go off of? ilvl LOL!? are you going to link me an achievement from timing a 15 last expansion LOL!?
You guy's just need to be more honest with yourself.. I mean if your best times key is a 6, why would you apply to a 10? Do you really want to humiliate yourself?
1 Like
11/05/2018 06:44 PMPosted by VoidarcaneFew things about raider.io:
They make their scores based off of blizzard's leaderboard for mythic+ runs, their formula involves the keystone level, time completed, affixes etc.
It's not affiliated with Blizzard so not like they will shut it down.
Better than gear score by a land slide.
Also Mythic Raider does not mean you are good at Mythic+ they are completely different fishes. If I had someone who was 8/8 mythic uldir but had 0 mythic +5 or higher done and someone of the same class who was 0/8 mythic uldir and had done every dungeon on +10 or higher in time, I'm going to invite the person who is 0/8.
Raids are all about boss mechanics and killing the boss, Mythic+ is all about killing Mobs ASAP in an effective non-wiping manner while aware of the affixes which can make the mobs a pain to deal with like bolstering, skittish etc. Mythic+ is all about speed while raiding is just about meeting dps checks and doing the mechanics right.
Just remember being good at Raids does not mean your good at Mythic+ and vice versa just like being good a Mythic Raider does not mean your good at Ranked PvP.
I find this argument lacking intellectual honesty.
First of all, no raider like myself is going to not run M+....it's been a source of extremely high ilevel gear and even more important this expansion - azerite armor. So this made up person who only raids 8/8 mythic but doesn't do any M+ can be dismissed immediately.
Second, you cannot deny similarities among PVE content in general. Raid or otherwise. There are mobs in raid settings especially trash (the chosen mob in Uldir is a great example) that have to be targeted and killed quickly. The affixes are almost all old raid mechanics tacked on to easier dungeon content so you have to actually apply some level of awareness past frontal cleaves and fire on the ground. So, this as well is something that doesn't past an honest common sense check.
The only real honest distinction is if someone has never ran a dungeon before, which is a non-factor I covered already.
11/05/2018 06:48 PMPosted by Katryona11/05/2018 06:44 PMPosted by VoidarcaneFew things about raider.io:
They make their scores based off of blizzard's leaderboard for mythic+ runs, their formula involves the keystone level, time completed, affixes etc.
It's not affiliated with Blizzard so not like they will shut it down.
Better than gear score by a land slide.
Also Mythic Raider does not mean you are good at Mythic+ they are completely different fishes. If I had someone who was 8/8 mythic uldir but had 0 mythic +5 or higher done and someone of the same class who was 0/8 mythic uldir and had done every dungeon on +10 or higher in time, I'm going to invite the person who is 0/8.
Raids are all about boss mechanics and killing the boss, Mythic+ is all about killing Mobs ASAP in an effective non-wiping manner while aware of the affixes which can make the mobs a pain to deal with like bolstering, skittish etc. Mythic+ is all about speed while raiding is just about meeting dps checks and doing the mechanics right.
Just remember being good at Raids does not mean your good at Mythic+ and vice versa just like being good a Mythic Raider does not mean your good at Ranked PvP.
I don't think the score accounts for affixes. They track what affixes you scored on, but does not have bearing on the score itself afaik.
Slightly mistpoke, the groups usually take the affixes into account on what you scored on, if you did all +10's during a week with REALLY easy affixes then you may get declined if its a hard week of affixes.
The funniest part of Raider.IO is using the addon in-game, seeing a M+ group that only wants 660+, and seeing that the player running the group has a 480. You ain't fooling anyone.
I think Raider.IO has serious issues, because people look at the score as a grade of your performance, rather than a grade of your progression (except maybe the Raid progression portion). I also promotes really toxic behavior (which is already an issue in M+ imo), and makes me not want to bother with M+.
I've found far less toxic pugs in Heroic Uldir than in M+, and that is weird as hell.
I think Raider.IO has serious issues, because people look at the score as a grade of your performance, rather than a grade of your progression (except maybe the Raid progression portion). I also promotes really toxic behavior (which is already an issue in M+ imo), and makes me not want to bother with M+.
I've found far less toxic pugs in Heroic Uldir than in M+, and that is weird as hell.
OP's name checks out.
1 Like
11/05/2018 06:30 PMPosted by JandrennaI understand why it exists. I really do, however I'm equally surprised why there is no community push by people with low IO scores to just do M+ together.
Because that takes initiative. People with lower .IO scores usually don't have that otherwise they would have a good .IO score. Crazy how that works but people who hire people to work at jobs figured it out a long time ago and make you jump through hoops so they don't hire someone with out initiative.
11/05/2018 06:49 PMPosted by EksI absolutely could not imagine pugging high level keys without the use of raider.IO! There's not a better way to get a general idea of someone's capabilities.
What else would we go off of? ilvl LOL!? are you going to link me an achievement from timing a 15 last expansion LOL!?
You guy's just need to be more honest with yourself.. I mean if your best times key is a 6, why would you apply to a 10? Do you really want to humiliate yourself?
Idk who you are referring to but I hope it wasn't me. Your post read as though you are overly defensive about people with lower "scores" that could easily outperform you in 5 man content with less exposure.
the problem isen't raider.io, its the fact that blizzard balanced M+ for competitive MDI and not for the average WoW player, raider.io is mandatory when a missed interrupt = a wipe
1 Like
11/05/2018 06:52 PMPosted by Badz11/05/2018 06:44 PMPosted by VoidarcaneFew things about raider.io:
They make their scores based off of blizzard's leaderboard for mythic+ runs, their formula involves the keystone level, time completed, affixes etc.
It's not affiliated with Blizzard so not like they will shut it down.
Better than gear score by a land slide.
Also Mythic Raider does not mean you are good at Mythic+ they are completely different fishes. If I had someone who was 8/8 mythic uldir but had 0 mythic +5 or higher done and someone of the same class who was 0/8 mythic uldir and had done every dungeon on +10 or higher in time, I'm going to invite the person who is 0/8.
Raids are all about boss mechanics and killing the boss, Mythic+ is all about killing Mobs ASAP in an effective non-wiping manner while aware of the affixes which can make the mobs a pain to deal with like bolstering, skittish etc. Mythic+ is all about speed while raiding is just about meeting dps checks and doing the mechanics right.
Just remember being good at Raids does not mean your good at Mythic+ and vice versa just like being good a Mythic Raider does not mean your good at Ranked PvP.
I find this argument lacking intellectual honesty.
First of all, no raider like myself is going to not run M+....it's been a source of extremely high ilevel gear and even more important this expansion - azerite armor. So this made up person who only raids 8/8 mythic but doesn't do any M+ can be dismissed immediately.
Second, you cannot deny similarities among PVE content in general. Raid or otherwise. There are mobs in raid settings especially trash (the chosen mob in Uldir is a great example) that have to be targeted and killed quickly. The affixes are almost all old raid mechanics tacked on to easier dungeon content so you have to actually apply some level of awareness past frontal cleaves and fire on the ground. So, this as well is something that doesn't past an honest common sense check.
The only real honest distinction is if someone has never ran a dungeon before, which is a non-factor I covered already.
Mythic+ and Raiding are similar but they are far from the same, I have seen people I am friends with who are 6/8 on mythic uldir or better and can't do a +7 keystone for the life of them.
Being good at one doesn't mean you are good at the other.
Also if you aren't getting into pugs get your Mythic Uldir Guildies/Friends and grind a keystone if your that good at as you are with Mythic raiding you can easily get +3 upgrades each time till your at +8's. Then the weekly chest gives you a keystone thats -1 from the best complete so you don't need to grind the keystone each week but get to +10 and do a +9 and +10 each week for your catch.
So you have no idea how I.O. works.... you have to make it on the top 500 leaderboard to get marked.... this is because that 500 leaderboard is the only pool of info raider I.O. has to pull from.... but wait i got NEWS
So posted a fourm up a few weeks back and said i wanted blizzard to increase size of leadership boards to allow raider i.o. a bigger pool of info so more keys count and then also posted the question in the Q and A!!!! well it got asked and there answer was better then anything i could have hoped for..... there going to make your dungeon progress now show up in the ARMORY!!!! that means all your keys will now count and your score is more of a true comparison with your skill then what it is right now!!! thank your blizzard for you have done everyone a great service and now your score is your own responsibility and you cant pretend its not!!!!
So posted a fourm up a few weeks back and said i wanted blizzard to increase size of leadership boards to allow raider i.o. a bigger pool of info so more keys count and then also posted the question in the Q and A!!!! well it got asked and there answer was better then anything i could have hoped for..... there going to make your dungeon progress now show up in the ARMORY!!!! that means all your keys will now count and your score is more of a true comparison with your skill then what it is right now!!! thank your blizzard for you have done everyone a great service and now your score is your own responsibility and you cant pretend its not!!!!