No, no, wait - let’s go with this! Uhm, yeah, so my io issss… 3472849.2. Yep. Been pushing a lot lately, so… 
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Two things can problematic simultaneously, this isnt a right vs wrong, good vs evil situation. Both have issues, both are influencing how people think about content and neither is doing it in a good way.
The players utilizing the information provided is actually the problem.
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I was disappointed when I saw a mount was now tied to KSM…
In general, I hate limited time rewards. It’s a gross concept and feeds to much ego-driven stupidity. Plus it doesn’t make sense in an ongoing world that needs things for people to want to work toward. 
I remember seeing the same trend years ago in D3 Seasons…
The first few seasons were fun, were you got fun rewards as you progressed through it. First 1/3 got you a nice armor set for your character, and a little past that you would get a cool pet or gear or bonus transmog items. If you completed the full season you’d unlock a new portrait icon for bragging rights.
However, after the first few seasons, I can only imagine that they saw that most folks only played far enough to get the pets and transmogs, because all of us a sudden those same rewards required progressing through the season. After seeing this 2-3 times, it got to the point where you needed to complete the season in order to get the pet and transmogs.
This tells me that M+ isn’t proving to be as popular as they want it to be, so they’re trying to spice up the pot.
Which is too bad… I’ve been trying to slowly work my way to KSM this season, but after the setback of needing to transition to a new character and then simply dealing with the overwhelming toxicity of dealing with players…
I mean, seriously, the game is challenging but it’s a fun challenge. What isn’t fun is the people issues. It’s overwhelming stressful and when working a full time job+ and with familial responsibilities, the last thing I want to deal with is some no-lifer with a grandiose ego and a bad attitude.
Also sure as hell not paying for carries anymore. Once upon a time I did it because I could make the gold playing the AH and thought it would be “cool to support the community and get the thing I wanted”, but it seems like that’s only making the problem worse.
People gating the community to make sales, people trying hard to get the cool mount reward because those are the only lasting rewards in the game, and people freaking out all over the place…
When did this stop being a game for fun?
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Before raider IO there was item level
Before item level we had gear score
Before gear score we had Armory check
Before armory check we had people inspecting you.
The golden age of happy pugs never happened.
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Not really. One in a bunch looking for high for a carry? Maybe. Majority? Looking for people with similar experience.
This isn’t the first time.
If the people complaining about io would simply read up on how it works and build yours, you would find fewer problems. Would you still be declined? Yes. Four spots max and too many people make that happen. Would you then have a reasonable chance at getting in a key you are qualified for? Yes. Would other qualified people join your group? Yes. It’s actually a very simple system, it just doesn’t help you if you want to jump up 4 key levels in pugs.
We replaced ilvl alone, an arbitrary progression check that could in some cases almost permanently push late joiners out of typical means of progression yet nonetheless told us incredibly little about a player’s actual skill level (instead, merely how lucky they’ve gotten with drops) with raider IO, far more relevant and meritocratic information that gives a much clearer and fairer progression path.
Oh the loss. The horror.
In other news, there’s not a single spec that can’t do +20 keys. Yes, some provide more convenient burst or utility, but if a guy can double-time the 10 on Survival, there’s little risk in taking him to an 11, anti-FotM though he may be. Buying into that FotM mindedness, despite people’s clearly stated experience and beyond simple constraints like fewer than 4 melee in a Quaking run, is far more “toxic” than anything raider IO has put forth.
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Most players aren’t good enough for higher end raiding or PvP either.
And that’s ok.
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You are 1/2 correct. RIO isn’t the problem. The community is the problem. Blizz could perfectly balance everything and get rid of tokens and make it all nice and neat and pretty. The bottom line is the community abuses RIO just as they have always abused Ilvl in heroics with GearScore back in the day. Prior to that gear was evaluated in person via profiles and inspections. People acted pretty much the same way they do now even though RIO, boosts, ect … didn’t exist.
You want to change the status-quo then you all need to start by looking in the mirror and evaluating THAT first.
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Anyone who blames RIO for it being tough to get into groups has never made their own group and it shows.
Pretty much every issue in this thread can be attributed not to RIO, but rather the fact that due to the huge glut of DPS, group leaders can afford to be picky and pass up anyone who isn’t massively ahead of the curve.
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You can’t balance 36 MMO classes around content like M+ it is impossible. This is why M+ blows. Real MMO gamers didn’t sign up to play an e-sport in their MMOs.
This is why we got the great prune in Legion, because they were trying to pave way for this MOBA style content.
If people want interesting classes again like we had in MoP, you can’t create a third of your endgame around hardcore 5 man content with a timer.
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And that a lot of tanks and healers just prefer to run with our guilds.
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I pug dungeons in Classic all the time lol.
Not sure how you don’t think the player-base isn’t responsible for the player-base.
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Id like to add to this, plz link achive for x
even if X was doing heroic mode raid while you were trying to get into a normal raid.
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WQGF wasn’t a problem either. Until blizz decided it was one. Heaven forbid we group up in an mmo.
Then don’t do it?
WoW still offers large group raid content like always.
It is. Anyone can choose whomever for any run.
it’s not
/thread
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I agree that raider io is useful information - but to blame blizzard is a misstep.
The fault lies in the ignorance and entitlement of the community.
Ignorance - players think they’re getting declined because their io isn’t good enough when I’m reality there are lots of other reasons contributing to those declines. I get declined all the time and my io is more than enough sufficient for 15s.
Entitlement - players think they should get into groups without having acquired the experience that other players have.
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