I am all for that ancient tech limitation to go, but you have to at the very least adjust boss health. The raids were balanced around that limit existing. People going into the raids with full worlds buffs and no limit, and they will be actual, literal target dummies.
Better yet: just do the SoM raid changes and purge world buffs from raids too. Or as a compromise, give some incentive for people to do no world buff runs of raids please.
I kinda disagree.
Taking out a warrior or a rogue for a spriest that does 55% their damage makes the bosses harder with more HP available.
I think itll be fine.
I don’t think people are there for challenging content, man. There’s a lot of advocacy for things that already make the game easier or otherwise trivialize the game’s content. Considering that most folks see this as a TBC waiting room anyway, I’m just not sure what value there is in making a tuning pass that Blizzard will probably get wrong anyway.
Like, I definitely agree with your core premise… debuff limit removal will somewhat increase overall raid DPS and so bosses will die faster. Increasing the boss health pool will compensate for this and help normalize the experience.
I just don’t think most of the folks going for this care one way or the other.
Removing the debuff limit makes warriors and rogues more powerful too. It affects ALL debuffs, not just magic. This change will have a huge impact on difficulity.
Bosses aren’t going to be easier, probably harder now tbh.
Spriests still have mana issues. Locks still have threat issues.
You’re going to be removing warrior/rogues to get other classes in, which is a net loss for raid DPS so.
I think until we know with MC data they dont touch a thing. MC is a joke (tbh the whole game is a joke) but if its a serious issue address it for BWL with a flat 10% buff or something idk.
warriors already get every debuff they could possibly want.
Guess they can rend now?
This is such a massive strawman that gets repeated. It’s like the people who copypasta this either think a raid is a complete, literal dummy that does nothing or its a full on mythic raid.
NOBODY has ever asked for mythic raids in classic. Pretending that SoM mechanics or even just adjusting boss health to keep the difficulity in line with what 2019 classic was is making the game like mythic raids is just hilarious levels of dishonesty.
LOL nobody will be removing warriors/rogues, they will be made even more powerful. I can’t tell if people are lying or actually think the debuff limit is only for magic. It affects all debuffs. Meme specs will stay memes.
I said I agree with your premise, but I just said that I don’t think people care. They should, but they don’t.
Also, you took a giant leap extending what I said to mean I’m advocating for mythic raids in Vanilla. I’m not. In fact, it’s dishonest of you to suggest that this was my intent.
Personally, I don’t think that Mythic style raids belong in Era. That’s just not what the game is for. That’s not what a mob health increase will accomplish though. That would just be a minor balance pass that, while appropriate, is ultimately inconsequential.
My mistake then for knee jerking on the first sentence.
Personally, I would say the loudest people would cry if blizzard buffed health or did something modest with difficulity like SoM raids, but nearly all those people would still play it. The vast majority who aren’t forum warriors will not even realize the buffs until 60.
Nerfing the difficulity even further however will make a lot of people bored which will be terrible for long term retention. The game shouldn’t appease the loud minority that will never be happy until blizzard did nerf after nerf until the game literally plays itself for them.
I am afraid the streamers will down bosses in the first ID; no matter what state of the game we get.
The majority of players will not reach 60, leave alone transition to TBC. I still think that the biggest obstacle for the average Joe is the gatekeeping and we will see how strong that will be. Having a group finder, could be helpful, who did not hate asking chat for an hour, just to kill that Elite in Arathi?
Classic fresh seems to have a lot of hype, but we saw in the past, that even two realms can hardly be filled long term. SOD seems to at least be doing okish, with a few locked realms, but even SOM or the follow up classic versions such as TBC, Wrath or now Cata seem to not attract that many players.
Let´s face it, it´s not like Vanilla when we had this one big MMO and 9 Million players. In 2024, we have many MMO´s and even several versions of WOW. The majority is just here for a quick run and does not look for somethin long term.
I do agree, that having a harder game is more fun. Remix was boring for me, as it was too easy and Era did not feel like classic either. But I believe that my view and yours, are just outdated in gaming these days.
All good, glad we got on the same page 
Truth be told, I don’t think anything will help here. At the end of the day these servers are going to be the same thing we’ve had for the last 5 years. There’s a few changes now and that will have mixed reaction. For some it will be offputting and they just won’t come. For others, they will be very enticing but will it be enough to want to both start over and do the same content we’ve already had for the last 5 years?
We’ve seen fresh servers a time or two since 2019 and they seldom last. They’re usually pretty popular for a month or two but then they start to dwindle. It’s just the same repeated pattern we always see. While normalizing the difficulty is something that woudl be good to do, I don’t think it will even factor in with regards to retention. The bulk of the experience is just too much the same.
I appreciate that some people really do want a fresh server, but the only compelling reason for most of us to play on these servers is that they will progress to TBC. Even that draw is tempered by the uncertainty surrounding whether or not TBC will stick around, or if everybody’s characters will just get deleted again.
if raid night isnt 4+ hours long, who will raid lead yell at all night. we gotta keep them in the raid to instill their will. this tracks
Good news: Removal of Buff/Debuff cap changes almost nothing so nothing needs to be changed.
I’m here for any other questions about how doomed Vanilla end game is and how it’ll die shortly after people hit 60
Get ready to learn Annihilator buddy
Bosses will die in 20 seconds or less regardless.
This is classic era, they always were.
Kills the server. Nobody wants to be in there to begin with, raids are just an avenue to get gear. Make the raids annoying and server dies early
Not in SoM they weren’t. They still weren’t hard but required some attention and mechanics which is fun
SoM raids were not annoying. The mechanic changes were minor and added a bit of fun flavor.
Just go play on the era servers if this bothers you