Ill be straight to the point, i think the time and effort that goes into raids, learning the mechanics, hours spent and having to get 20 people together should be better rewarded. Doing a +7 key takes 30 mins and you have a 2 out of 5 chance of loot, you are also rewarded guilded crests. Doing a Heroic only gets you only runed crests and almost zero chance of loot for hours worth of work. I dont think raiding is as equally rewarding as M+
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I agree that the amount of loot that drops in raids needs to be increased.
it absolutely is not
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Nah, the rewards of M+ need to be nerfed. Getting loot and vault slots for failing to time the key is absurd.
Remove key depletion and all rewards for failing the timer, put gilded crests at +10.
6 Likes
This. You can span M+ week 1 of the season and have a full set of hero gear. You can’t do that in any other pillar of content.
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Actually hilarious how overly rewarding keys have always been.
+10s giving Myth track when like the fourth or fifth boss in Heroic is harder 
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For the good of the game? Maybe.
But will kill player engagement.
Guess which one drives the devs’ design choices.
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M+ or die is blizzard’s motto. M+ had been far too over rewarding for too long. Any suggestion of this is usually meet with howling and screeching by the people who prefer the easy loot.
The fact failing a m+ 10 is more rewarding than successfully clearing an entire heroic raid is a joke.
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The vault is giving myth track, the runs themselves give heroic track.
Strictly speaking, myth raid vs mythic plus, the mythic raid is absolutely more “rewarding”. You get myth drops from doing the content, and then a guaranteed myth track item when you open your vault.
Maybe the raids have become tremendously more difficult since the last time I was in a mythic raiding guild back in legion, but the first couple myth bosses tended to be more than puggable. It’s a logistics check of getting twenty people who are not window lickers, and then doing the pulls.
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I dont know how you can compare a 30min M+10 run to a Mythic raid that has to have a min of 20 people and if anyone leaves they are raid locked and cant do another mythic raid for another week, imagine if there was a weekly lockout if you left one M+ dungeon or the group left you
You’re conflating arbitrary nonsense that is still attached to mythic raiding for no good reason other than to prop up guild interaction, with the difficulty of the content as some proxy for whether it deserves rewards or not.
Healthiest thing for the game, would be to make mythic raiding 10 man, so it’s a natural combination of two 5 mans. Then remove the raid lock, and most of it would get pugged by teamed up 5 mans.
2 Likes
Agree. Raiding gears needs to be a whole tier higher. Call it raider
“Raiding for gear” hasn’t been a “thing” for a long, long time. Bang/buck, hours/gear, M+ has been the Go To activity for gear for a while.
Folks raid because they like raiding.
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Wanting to design content where people can spend ~30 minutes of their time trying to time a dungeon, fail, and get nothing from it after still clearing it is a 
take. Not only that you’re just going to cause people to more readily abandon keys a third or halfway through the run if it goes south because there’s not even a point to finishing the run now for a slot.
Moreover, the biggest problem with M+ rewards is the ability to spam the content for the base rewards that has no lockout rather than the fact that they can get one piece of myth track loot a week for the entire season. If they put a weekly lockout to each M+ dungeon they’d solve a massive portion of the disparity between doing each form of content; put each track of loot on its own lockout and call it a day.
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Mythic track should drop in 12s.
Sadly wow players crave artificial hierarchys and the “mythic” raiders only able to kill 3 bosses would squeal about it.
1 Like
Doing a +7 key also takes time to learn mechanics, spend time building multiple groups, and get likely ~20 people together over the course of those groups.
Otherwise you just got carried through a +7 key.
There is no in between.
Sure, after you’ve already timed +7 keys it’s not as hard to get a key together as it is to get a raid together, but that doesn’t negate the time spent learning the dungeon and getting either the bonafides required for an invite or the key level required to list it yourself.
But after you’re AotC it’s also not hard to find a heroic raid invite to get rolling on either.
You don’t get anything in raiding for failing to kill the boss. Why should you get rewarded for failing to meet the core component of M+? Clearing the dungeon is the same as doing a delve. The timer is the skill check.
Correct. You’ll also note I said to remove key depletion so people abandoning runs means you can try with a new group and no penalty.
No it shouldn’t. That would further increase the gear gap in the playerbase because the top players would have full mythic slot in two days while players without the skill or time to invest fall even further behind than they do now.
1 Like
There is nothing wrong with a pugged Mythic raid, almost all M+ are pugged. My point is about reward, a M+6 rewards guilded crests and Heroic loot and is not much of a challenge. Heroic raids are much more challenging than M+6 and dont give you guilded crests unil last bosses, and you can only kill them once a week. When you pug a raid your rolling against all 20 people, in a M+ its almost 50/50 chance
1 Like
Just get better?
What an absurd argument
So every player gets better, completes the pillar in two days, and then M+ is dead for the rest of the season. Congrats, your idea sucks for multiple reasons.
We all know they’d just replace mythic with another track that only comes from vaults for M+ anyhow. Then do the same shuffle for raids to keep parity.
Their idea would be invalidated the day it became a thing.
But to be fair, your ideas for nerfing M+ rewards are just as bad. So it seems we’re in a competition for who can come up with the worst ideas.
1 Like