Vanilla raiding was tricky when it comes to raid ID and lockouts.
Blizzard has gone through many iterations of lockout designs. The live design is more flexible and functional.
If Blizzard has plugged the 1.12 database into the modern infrastructure. Is the raid lockout design a database function? Which version will we get. Which should we get and why?
We will get the original lockout, as its "an authentic vanilla experience".
Why would you think it would be anything else?
Why would you think it would be anything else?
Remind me again what the difference is.
I thought 40 man raids reset every Tuesday and 20 mans twice a week or something like that. How has it changed?
I thought 40 man raids reset every Tuesday and 20 mans twice a week or something like that. How has it changed?
what has changed?
I think there was once a point where the timer started rolling based on the time the first boss was killed in a raid. So if you got locked out on a Friday you would have to wait until next Friday. The every Tuesday reset came in pretty early in vanilla as but not at the very start as far as I'm aware.
I believe lockouts linked to that specific instance and group so that you could only ever play with people locked in to that instance.
This had led to cases of people going into a group and getting locked without warning and could make it impossible to raid with their guild unless they all raided that person's locked instance. But in that case the other people who were also locked with you might come back to find all the bosses dead or vice versa.
Correct me if I'm wrong though.
That being said I personally think there's something of merit about the modern lockout system being individual based as opposed to instance based being much less confusing and vastly superior.
But also with that opinion out there, Blizzard did say "warts and all".
I believe lockouts linked to that specific instance and group so that you could only ever play with people locked in to that instance.
This had led to cases of people going into a group and getting locked without warning and could make it impossible to raid with their guild unless they all raided that person's locked instance. But in that case the other people who were also locked with you might come back to find all the bosses dead or vice versa.
Correct me if I'm wrong though.
That being said I personally think there's something of merit about the modern lockout system being individual based as opposed to instance based being much less confusing and vastly superior.
But also with that opinion out there, Blizzard did say "warts and all".
08/14/2018 02:23 PMPosted by SilcoVanilla didn’t have 20 mans08/14/2018 02:11 PMPosted by DeallocRemind me again what the difference is.
I thought 40 man raids reset every Tuesday and 20 mans twice a week or something like that. How has it changed?
AQ 20 and ZG?
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08/14/2018 02:23 PMPosted by SilcoVanilla didn’t have 20 mans08/14/2018 02:11 PMPosted by DeallocRemind me again what the difference is.
I thought 40 man raids reset every Tuesday and 20 mans twice a week or something like that. How has it changed?
To OP: what has changed?
What vanilla did you play? There were indeed two 20 man raids in vanilla. Zul'Gurub and The Ruins of Ahn'Qiraji.
08/14/2018 02:23 PMPosted by OrcsworthI think there was once a point where the timer started rolling based on the time the first boss was killed in a raid. So if you got locked out on a Friday you would have to wait until next Friday. The every Tuesday reset came in pretty early in vanilla as but not at the very start as far as I'm aware.
I believe lockouts linked to that specific instance and group so that you could only ever play with people locked in to that instance.
This had led to cases of people going into a group and getting locked without warning and could make it impossible to raid with their guild unless they all raided that person's locked instance. But in that case the other people who were also locked with you might come back to find all the bosses dead or vice versa.
Correct me if I'm wrong though.
That being said I personally think there's something of merit about the modern lockout system being individual based as opposed to instance based being much less confusing and vastly superior.
But also with that opinion out there, Blizzard did say "warts and all".
So the difference is if you were locked to a raid and your guild continued without you you'd come back to find bosses defeated that you were not present for?
I thought that was still how it was. Didn't even realize they changed that.
08/14/2018 02:23 PMPosted by Menard<span class="truncated">...</span> Vanilla didn’t have 20 mans
AQ 20 and ZG?
Lmao wow! Massive brain fart .. holy crap thats kind of embarrassing. I was thinking “UBRS was never 20?” ... yikes. The worst part about that is I had 2 characters exalted with ZG ..
Vanilla raid lockouts were treated like mythic raid lockouts are on live.08/14/2018 02:23 PMPosted by Silcowhat has changed?
Meaning once you kill a boss or enter a raid instance where any boss is dead, you are saved to that Raid ID. Any attempt to enter that raid instance prior to the scheduled raid reset causes you to enter that particular Raid ID.
This means that if you pug and only kill one boss, you cannot then join your guild run the next day to kill the rest of the bosses.
It also means that if you're doing a progression run and only kill 1 boss, a pug you brought in could steal the raid ID and go kill the rest of the bosses before your next guild raid night.
There's more than one aspect to lockouts as I recall.
First was the basic question of when the raids would reset, making all bosses available to kill again and undoing any progress made by a group. I don't remember if it was Wrath or Cata, or perhaps later in BC, when they added a way for a raid leader to extend a raid ID past that reset.
Second was the progress of a specific raid. This was the ID that determined what all characters would see when they went through the portal, what the instance server needed to set up - trash, bosses, respawn timers, etc. This was more important in the early days than the individual characters.
Third was individual character progress. In the early days this was nothing more than being saved to the specific raid instance. If you missed a raid night and your group killed three more bosses, when you next went in, those bosses were dead and you'd missed your chance.
Fourth was the addition in Wrath of separate versions of the instances, first 10-man versus 25-man and Normal versus Heroic. This required separate instance lockouts so people could do all four combinations, but boy did it cause headaches if a raid leader failed to set it to the right combination and someone went through the portal and got saved to one they hadn't done, or only 10 of the 25 players could get in and now the 10-man raids were screwed up because the wrong people were saved to that.
So ... what were the vanilla lockouts like at the various points, and which is most workable?
EDIT: Per http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Raid_timer
Looks like the extensions were Wrath and not relevant here.
(Don't know and don't care how pservers do it.)
First was the basic question of when the raids would reset, making all bosses available to kill again and undoing any progress made by a group. I don't remember if it was Wrath or Cata, or perhaps later in BC, when they added a way for a raid leader to extend a raid ID past that reset.
Second was the progress of a specific raid. This was the ID that determined what all characters would see when they went through the portal, what the instance server needed to set up - trash, bosses, respawn timers, etc. This was more important in the early days than the individual characters.
Third was individual character progress. In the early days this was nothing more than being saved to the specific raid instance. If you missed a raid night and your group killed three more bosses, when you next went in, those bosses were dead and you'd missed your chance.
Fourth was the addition in Wrath of separate versions of the instances, first 10-man versus 25-man and Normal versus Heroic. This required separate instance lockouts so people could do all four combinations, but boy did it cause headaches if a raid leader failed to set it to the right combination and someone went through the portal and got saved to one they hadn't done, or only 10 of the 25 players could get in and now the 10-man raids were screwed up because the wrong people were saved to that.
So ... what were the vanilla lockouts like at the various points, and which is most workable?
EDIT: Per http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Raid_timer
Patch 1.3.0 (07-Mar-2005):
"Raid lockout" is fixed. If the leader of your raid group is saved in a different instance than you would otherwise go to, you are added to your leader's instance.
Added /raidinfo command showing remaining time on saved raid instances. Also shows an ID to compare with other players (if you have the same saved ID as them, you will go into the same instance)
Added a chat window message when you are first saved to an instance.Since Patch 1.9.0, instances are reset according to a fixed calendar. This was decided by Blizzard to be fairest to most and replaces the previous system of resetting raid instances based on the absence from the instance of the raid members.Looks like the extensions were Wrath and not relevant here.
(Don't know and don't care how pservers do it.)
Info on raid lockouts for vanilla and various subsequent expansions.
http://classic-wow.wikia.com/wiki/Raid_timer
http://classic-wow.wikia.com/wiki/Raid_timer
Patch 1.9
Raid Calendar SystemEdit
The raid-lockout system has undergone a significant change. The new system will have all instances reset at a certain server time, regardless of when you were actually saved to the instance. The reset schedule is as follows:
Molten Core: Every 7 Days, resetting during weekly maintenance. Blackwing Lair: Every 7 Days, resetting during weekly maintenance Onyxia: Every 5 Days Zul'Gurub: Every 3 Days Temple of Ahn'Qiraj (40-man): Every 7 Days, resetting during weekly maintenance Ruins of Ahn'Qiraj (20-man): Every 3 Days
All resets will occur during off-hours, when the least amount of raids are active.
Raid Calendar SystemEdit
The raid-lockout system has undergone a significant change. The new system will have all instances reset at a certain server time, regardless of when you were actually saved to the instance. The reset schedule is as follows:
All resets will occur during off-hours, when the least amount of raids are active.
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08/14/2018 02:23 PMPosted by Menard... Vanilla didn’t have 20 mans
AQ 20 and ZG?
Ony was also on a shorter timer aswell IIRC. was it 3.5 days or 5? I can't remember for the life of me.
No please. I want to do ony twice a week! The raid timers where a bit different, ony would reset 5 /6 days. While MC was a full week on tues, BWL Naxx AQ 40 followed MC rule set, While ZG / AQ 20 could be done twice or three times a week, if i remember right.
The link I put said daily for AQ20 and ZG, and five days for Ony.08/14/2018 04:12 PMPosted by CurruptressOny was also on a shorter timer aswell IIRC. was it 3.5 days or 5? I can't remember for the life of me.
EDIT: whoops, backwards
Zul'Gurub: Every day at 3:00AM
Molten Core: Every Tuesday at 3:00AM or during weekly maintenance
Blackwing Lair: Every Tuesday at 3:00AM or during weekly maintenance
Onyxia's Lair: Every 5 days at 3:00AM
Ruins of Ahn'Qiraj: Every day at 3:00AM[2]
Temple of Ahn'Qiraj: Every Tuesday at 3:00AM or during weekly maintenance
Naxxramas: Every Tuesday at 3:00AM or during weekly maintenanceLOL and EDIT 2: I'm realizing that data was from later, because they had ZG and Naxx stricken out (Wrath or later). The AQ20 one appears to have been changed from 3 days to daily in Legion.
We are not getting the "pure" vanilla. We are getting vanilla with a modern infrastructure.08/14/2018 02:04 PMPosted by Bigsly1DD123We will get the original lockout, as its "an authentic vanilla experience".
Why would you think it would be anything else?
You also assume too much with "authentic vanilla experience." But you've heard my stance on it and you know you can't disprove it so I will move on.
As to other posters that don't know how the live lockout works.
Blizzard had changed the way you are saved to raid id's many many times. The last I raided, the boss kill is what you are locked to and not the raid id. You could join a fresh raid even though you already killed all the bosses for that raid that week. You would not be elegable for loot but you could still raid.
You could show up to raid on day one, kill half the bosses. Then miss day two and the guild carries on without you to kill the other half of the bosses. At this point you are free to PUG the other bosses you did not kill.
In vanilla, you enter a raid and you got locked to the raid id. If you were not present when the bosses were killed they are still dead. You waited until the weekly reset to try again.
The 1.12 lockout system was nice for the 20 mans.
08/14/2018 06:12 PMPosted by RistraBlizzard had changed the way you are saved to raid id's many many times. The last I raided, the boss kill is what you are locked to and not the raid id. You could join a fresh raid even though you already killed all the bosses for that raid that week. You would not be elegable for loot but you could still raid.
Running BWL with your guild and then helping another group with BWL isn't blizz like and won't be in the game. Nothing that was post 1.12 for raid lockouts will be in classic. This is a authentic experience, not some mongoloid mashup of design changes from the past decade wrapped around level 60.
You don't know that #nochange is a Blizzard policy. Nor do I care if it was.08/14/2018 06:28 PMPosted by Supyodawg08/14/2018 06:12 PMPosted by RistraBlizzard had changed the way you are saved to raid id's many many times. The last I raided, the boss kill is what you are locked to and not the raid id. You could join a fresh raid even though you already killed all the bosses for that raid that week. You would not be elegable for loot but you could still raid.
Running BWL with your guild and then helping another group with BWL isn't blizz like and won't be in the game. Nothing that was post 1.12 for raid lockouts will be in classic. This is a authentic experience, not some mongoloid mashup of design changes from the past decade wrapped around level 60.
The topic is vanilla raid id lockout vs live lockout. The differences and there is a possibility we could have the live instead of vanilla. Since we are getting the live infrastructure.