If shadowlands ends the way I think it will, I’m going back to the The Old Republic. At least that game follows the story from your characters perspective and your choices do have some degree of affect on how things play out 
1 Like
I mean to be fair she should have never been villain-batted in the first place.
If only Tyrande hadn’t sent the entire Kal’dorei army off to try to murder goblin civilians in Silithus.
Hindsight is 20/20 I guess.
The Alliance didn’t exactly give the Horde an ultimatum to give up Sylvanas or face a war of extermination. The second the tree started burning, everyone hordeside knew they had to hunker down and defend against an impending total war.
Once Anduin was able to give assurances that the Alliance wouldn’t slaughter everyone’s families if given a clear shot to take out Sylvanas, magically nearly all of the Horde besides the hardcore Sylvanas loyalists and those directly being controlled by said loyalists either bowed out of the fight or joined the rebellion.
Are you honestly defending the writers for making the Horde stick with Sylvanas until she turned on “The Heart of the Horde” Lord Baine. Then and only then did they realized Andiun in his infinite caring ways wanted only Sylvanas instead of killing every single member of the Horde?
6 Likes
Looks that way.
In any case, Waygs is of course wrong. The Horde should not have had to wait for the Alliance to deliver a formal request if they really did have a problem with Teldrassil. The issue of course is that they just didn’t have a problem with Teldrassil outside of Saurfang - or at least not a concern that they deigned to articulate.
3 Likes
My question is if the issue was so bad that the Horde believed they faced extinction by alliance hands how does a letter promising otherwise clear up their worries? Alliance could break the promise.
What happened during the Baine incident that all fears of an extinction level event were blown away like mist for the Horde leadership?
Unless of course as you said there was no fear and now that Sylvanas turned on them they decided to switch sides too.
4 Likes
The extinction matter is a manufactured concern courtesy of Waygs. Pitching the choice of dealing with the Horde as a choice between pure pacifism and genocide is a false dichotomy, and a favorite tactic of certain Hordeside posters. If the question is whether the Horde knew or expected that, there’s a certain history to consider, one that the Alliance would have to deviate from in order to make this expectation realistic.
I imagine he’s getting that from the Old Soldier cinematic, where Saurfang angrily tells Sylvanas during the burning that all of the alliance is going to come for them over that. At least, that’s what I thought the game was trying to portray, but it’s hard for me to ignore the meta-knowledge that Blizzard wouldn’t have the alliance do that.
7 Likes
I mean, they’ve done horrific things to Horde civillians with far less provocation.
And it got white-washed because Blizzard doesn’t want its precious lawful good overdrive drones from having any depth.
3 Likes
The things that Alliance does to Horde civilians are also done by Horde to Alliance civilians in equal measure even if we don’t bring up Theramore, SoO or Teldrassil. They all get whitewashed or ignored.
Book events are almost always completely ignored because only 3 people read them and remember.
The only difference between both factions is that Horde is allowed to commit Teldrassil/Theramore events the game needs to “Advance the story” but Alliance is not allowed to.
3 Likes
Well, finally got the forums to recognize my playtime.
There are two reasons the alliance doesn’t do the same type of atrocities as the horde. First is the writers personal narrative biases on who gets what morality. The current head writers have always been interested in surface level Good vs Bad stories, they just had people interested in moral ambiguity leading them before, with it also being the Good Alliance vs the Evil Horde ala Warcraft 2 then the more nuanced Alliance and Horde of Warcraft 3.
The second reason is the Horde, especially at this point, can’t really lose anything. Quel’thalas is in BC limbo, while Orgrimmar is the Cap. Smaller cities and towns do not exist for the Horde in the same way they do for the Alliance. Our Theramore is just a camp in a swamp. You could destroy thunderbluff i guess, but that would destroy Ironforge (even though technically Stormwind was designed as Thunderbluffs counterpart back in Vanilla, with Ironforge being the cap) do to how removing a cap city causes you to lose one as well.
The solution to this problem is not “Villain Bat the Alliance” as much as “Stop Villain batting the Horde”. The fact we lost 2 of the Racial Capitals was insane and should have never been considered, but it happened and i very much do not want to push us down to literally having only orgrimmar and stormwind as cities.
3 Likes
Well … you can lose cities in parts. A huge crater here, a scorched wasteland there, a combat helicopter somewhere else … And gradually, step by step, only inhabited ruins will remain from Orgrimmar, freely visited by Alliance players.