I know there have been a million posts about M+ vs Raid drops and how one is killing the other, etc. But hear me out here…
I needed to clear heroic 5 weeks in a row before I got a single piece of heroic tier loot. That 402 chest piece I won felt great… until the next week when catalyst opened up, and a random chest I found in M+ suddenly made the tier piece I had been searching for obsolete. (I could upgrade it to 408, soon to be 415 once I hit 2400.) Raiding is hard. It’s hard to find a guild/group that is willing to put in the time. It’s hard to get lucky with drops (and with rolls now, but that’s a different story.) And it sucks knowing that you can go through all the effort and have your gear get replaced by a piece of M+ gear that took me 30 minutes to farm.
Raid gear needs to be upgradable. There have been tons of discussions about how this would work, but the simplest option would be to just make it fall into the same valor upgrade path that M+ gear currently does. I should be able to use valor to upgrade a 402 chest piece I got from raid rather than catalyst a M+ item and then upgrade it.
Raid lockouts need to be more forgiving. Normal/Heroic raids should be lootable more than once. It requires substantially more effort than M+ and if people genuinely enjoy raiding more than M+, they should have the option to spam heroic raids to get additional chances at loot. Mythic lockouts should also go away. It’s ridiculous that we are still locked to a mythic raid. If a group I pug fails on the second boss and calls it quits, I should still be able to find a new group.
Now I know these are all hot topics and I’m going to get a lot of disagreement, so curious about what people’s opinions are.
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On the one hand, raid pugging (which is implied by you needing to win a piece), is quite possibly the least efficient way to get gear in the game.
On the other, even guild raiding gives you less gear than the firehose that is M+.
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I raid with my guild. Mage tier didn’t drop for weeks.
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WoW needs to cultivate a community that does content because it is fun and it progresses their character in a meaningful way that does not rely on RNG gear drops.
So long as the end goal is the gear, and any method to gain it is just a measure of what you hate less or what is easier, this will never change.
Raids should drop valor like they did in mop, raid gear from heroic should upgrade to 415, same as the m+ limit. Crafted gear should also limit to 415. 418+ gear should only come from h final boss, mythic raid, and m+ vault (and whatever pvp equivalent is). Simple.
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They need to:
- Double the amount of loot that drops from each boss.
- Triple the number of infusions you get from each boss.
- Remove the weekly lockout from raiding.
Then we’ll be in something approaching parity between raiding and M+. Won’t be quite there, but it’s a start.
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Or just nerf the quality of M+ again.
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Remember when M+ didn’t even have valor upgrades? They were only added in season 2 of Shadowlands because of complains about the crapjob that Blizzard did on gear rewards at the start of SL.
Meanwhile, raiders got zip.
raiders got an extra item per mythic boss (which is only a partial revert of the nerfs that raid got at the start of SL, going from 5->3->4)
And the way to “cultivate” a community like that is making sure raiding is fun.
Guild raiding is fun. Pug raiding isn’t.
Yet people still insist on pug raiding.
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Hmm. Everybody who has ever raided with a guild was having fun, including all those guilds that stopped raiding during season 3 when sepulcher was made harder and less accessible even on normal to make players like you happy.
Too many people are still playing the game wrong. I guess the game would be better if everyone who doesn’t play exactly like you do would quit.
Exactly. Hence how we got zip.
It was very much a “thank you, sir, may I have another?” attempt by Blizzard.
Ahh, yes, my pet reason to dislike something is the reason why everyone else does. Yes, the devs missed with tuning sepulcher, but there are a whole host of other reasons why people would stop doing something in game (including the state of shadowlands)
If that’s your position, so be it. I just don’t have that much sympathy for people who claim something isn’t fun, when they actively make it less fun for themselves.
Dear OP,
Blizzard is not going to make these changes. Why you ask? Because they want people to do M+ and if they made changes to raids then many will no longer feel the impulse to have to grind the same dungeons over and over and over and over.