So I wanted to dive deeper into rage generation and the concept of fast over slow weapons.
I found this confirmed rage calculator R=(15d/4c)+(fs/2)
R= rage generated
d= weapon damage
c= rage conversion rate (230.6 @lvl60)
f= hit rating (main hand = 3.5)
s= speed
After plugging in three different weapons my level (30) and using the level 30 conversion rate, I found that rage generated per minute only varied from 125.01 (s=1.9), 124.8 (s=1.5), and 125.9 (s=2.8)
So basically, over the course of a minute, the total rage generated would only vary by about 1 rage point.
A crit doubles the rage at a flat x2 for that one critical hit. The slower weapons have larger single hits, which the math says would generate more rage. Therefore, a slower weapon with lots of crits should theoretically generate the most rage possible.
With all that said… how do fast weapons manage to remain meta? Are they truly generating more rage, or does it just seem that way? What am I missing?
Thanks! 
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Sorry, fam. You’re gonna have to slap me with an Arcane Intellect because that’s a bit too complicated for me to understand.
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Fast weapons are trading off big instant attacks for more frequent white attacks using the normalization formula:
damage = base_weapon_damage + (X * Attack Power / 14)
where X is:
- 1.7 for daggers
- 2.4 for other one-handed weapons
- 3.3 for two-handed weapons
- 2.8 for ranged weapons
- weapon speed for non-normalized attacks
So on your non-normalized attacks, you generate rage often, with MORE chances for critical hits because you’re attacking more, but on normalized attacks your fast weapon deals less damage (so bloodthirst for example). So the trick is, slap a fast weapon in offhand for more rage, and a slow weapon in mainhand for massive bloodthirst damage.
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Bloodthirst damage scales entirely off of AP, it doesn’t matter about weapon damage. You want a slow weapon in the main hand for Whirlwind, which only takes into account your main hand weapon damage. Rage generation is normalized but for leveling purposes (assuming you’re not dual wielding), a 2h is used for raw damage - and speed doesn’t matter until WW at 36, which is your first real on demand weapon damage ability, at which point you want to use as slow a weapon as possible. Same with for MS.
Basically, in pre-patch 1.8, there was no normalization. So in this formula:
damage = base_weapon_damage + (X * Attack Power / 14)
X was ALWAYS equal to weapon speed. So slow weapons got a HUGE damage bonus. Now, POST patch 1.8, ANY instant attacks you use i.e. whirlwind, bloodthirst, mortal strike, etc, always use their normalized value (the list under “where X is:” in my last comment).
So normalization meant that fast weapons now are more comparable to slow weapons, and really you just want the highest dps weapon you can get.
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There is consideration for auto attacks, but it doesn’t actually matter as much for melee since they don’t have any casts (excluding Slam spec). I honestly thought normalization was done with 2.0. I stand corrected.
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Correct, with a slower weapon you generate a bit more net rage but with a faster weapon you get a bit more bonus damage on instant attacks. So there’s a little trade off there.
Hmm…I totally misinterpreted the title.
I thought the thread was going to be about this generation of ragers
I am sad now…
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Wait but that’s exactly what we’re discussing, this generation of ragers aka warriors in classic!
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How selfish of me…I should have thought about you, Khaun! My apologizes. Enjoy your warrior rage thread. I am going to skip over to the #nochange thread. See ya there.
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(I should have specified for tanking, but all the same…)
Ah ok, Khaun, that may be the missing piece!
In the rage equation I was inserting the average damage of the weapon as listed by it’s min-max.
Factoring in: “damage = base_weapon_damage + (X * Attack Power / 14)”
where X is 1.7 for daggers and 2.4 for other one-handed weapons"
…is likely that true number for the value d.
Thank you!
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I always thought the argument was that the rage generation rate was pretty comparable but for abilities that deal weapon damage, slower weapons offer a better rage to damage conversion.
Me too. Me not this kind of orc.
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You don’t need calculations or charts. The fastest way to generate rage is to get a job in customer service.
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The tier two fury talent (unbridled wrath 8 believe) gives a precentage chance on hit to generate 1 rage on hit. swinging faster gets you more procs giving you more rage when you compare two weapons with the same dps
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Not counting the fury talent, the big reason a prot warrior would want a fast main hand is for raid scenarios where you are rage capped due to taking massive amounts of damage. The fast weapon lets you get off more heroic strikes thus more rage dumping and more threat. This is especially true if you’re swimming in rage as a DW fury tank.
Before you say that the heroic strikes would balance out in the same way the rage does due to weapon speed, heroic strike gives an extra chunk of threat on top of the threat from the damage itself, just like sunder armor does.
That, and for me personally, I like having that statistically lower chance of getting rage/threat starved forever in a 5 man from a chain of parries.
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Thanks, Trucidare, those are good points to factor in!
Also, 1 miss, for a slow weapon, will have greater penalty than fast.
That’s part of it and also that in the instant attack normalization formula it DOES use base weapon damage in the calculation still.
[Bloodthirst] does not depend on the weapon’s damage range.
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