Raganos is just one example of how SOM will be harder

People are saying that no world buffs, more boss HP and more boss mechanics wont make it harder just longer. Rag is one example, add your input on others.

I was in a guild that had a goal to kill rag before he submerged and the adds spawned. We were able to handle one submerge, but by the 2nd healers were OOM.

Rag is going to be a ton tougher if he submerges 4 times. Any misplays will cost you and you may not be able to kill rag.

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agreed. people like to complain about everything. how is adding more hp and mechanics not gonna make a fight harder just longer? makes 0 sense like what other things could u possibly add??? also on top of the more hp and mechanics (for later raids) since not everyone will be in their full tier sets it will be harder as well. i think people are confused or stupid when it comes to this stuff.

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If people really wanted harder, they wouldnā€™t have used world buffs at all. Players could always handicap themselves in a myriad of ways. Instead, they use any and all advantage at their disposal.

ā€˜Vanilla hardcoreā€™ is just a red herring, and Blizz is going to learn that lesson yet again.

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longer fights = more chances to make mistakes
pretty simple

players always use every buff that is available, especially these days. thatā€™s why itā€™s up to developers to keep stupid ones like world buffs out of the game. or at least out of the raid dungeons, in this case.

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Iā€™m not arguing that. I think thatā€™s a good change. My point is that players DONā€™T want harder. Even the ones who say they do (which is a miniscule percent of the playerbase).

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ā€¦due to the fact you will see all the boss mechanics and phases.

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I donā€™t disagree that the removal of WBā€™s is a good thing and will make the fights harder, but Iā€™m actually unable to think of more than one fight other than rag where we just straight up consistently skipped phases/mechanics due to quick kills. We just burned through those phases so quickly that they didnā€™t present much danger. The only one I can think of is panther boss in ZG that you could kill before she vanished.

Is there another fight like rag or the ZG boss where we just entirely skipped a fight mechanic in classic that Iā€™m missing?

The vast majority of players are not interested in challenging content.

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Play retail if you want a challenge. Nothing they do will make a vanilla boss harder than any mythic boss in retail. The appeal of classic is the class design and the world atmosphere.

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make Rag submerge % based instead of time-based.

75%-50%-25%-1%

Now heā€™s hard. and thereā€™s room for that one survivor giving the final blow if the last submerge goes bad. :slight_smile:

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I donā€™t understand why everyone hypes up world buffs, in my guild weā€™d wipe before first boss, so no buffs and still clear all the content just fine.

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This is the post of the year. People who want the game to be harder all quit the game early on anyways because ā€œezā€ vanilla was too tedious for them.

I think itā€™s because some people think itā€™s too much to ask if raid night takes longer than an hour lol

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The age old argument just donā€™t use world buffs. Good idea then there goes your invite to the raid because your guild requires them.

Classic was about the meta. U being a warrior should know this considering the amount of rogue and hunter gear u probably wore or the fact that u probably tried to get every weapon that dropped.

Only way to break a meta is not to provide the meta.

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Mythic difficulty is based on raid size and 1 additional mechanic usually to the fight. U do the mechanics and the boss dies.

Nothing is difficult in retail. Only guilds in retail not doing mythic are the ones not wanting to do the same encounters 3 times to get a title and gear 3 lvls higher than the heroic stuff.

Nonsense. You can always make a game harder arbitrarily, so this would mean thereā€™s no such thing as an easy or hard game. Youā€™re free to blindfold yourself if you want.

Playing the game means using every advantage the game gives you. Itā€™s literally your role as a player to collect items and buffs to make yourself more powerful. Thatā€™s just playing the gameā€¦ so youā€™re asking players to not play the game.

And thatā€™s not even considering the fact that ignoring world buffs excludes you from many MANY groups.

Players want a game that is inherently more difficult for those that play it. Removing world buffs is one way you could provide that game.

i guarantee thereā€™s stuff people have just completely forgotten about because the kills are so quick. like ancient history lost to timeā€¦

Agreed, I donā€™t know why the focus is on ā€œharder raidsā€ this time around. Most people I actually know donā€™t post on the forums, so I can speak for a few people when I say the fun was not from difficulty. The fun was 40 people coming together with scuffed classes and doing some old raids for purple pixels.

If all of these ā€œclassic is too easyā€ people cared, they would just play retail mythic. Except theyā€™re not good enough. None of the hardcore players I knew in classic thought the difficulty was a problem, it was always the non-raiders who complained it was too easy (ā€œthatā€™s why I never raid!ā€)

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Chromag I can kinda see being one. It was never ā€˜skippedā€™ but youā€™ll have to burn through more sands, eventually might run out. This was also one of the longer fights in Classic, and going OOM was def a thing in dad guilds, especially with the sheer amount of dispels on this one.

Iā€™d consider mana drain fights also an example of ā€˜skippedā€™ mechanics, Like Baron and potentially Lucifron. Your mana still got drained in Classic, yes, but the boss was almost always dead before it really mattered.

Same with Vael. Heā€™s scripted to adrenaline his highest aggroed player every three adrenalines or so? Most guilds used this as a benchmark, if you canā€™t kill him before the tank gets blown up, you wipe. In reality, I think itā€™s designed where a second tank is supposed to take over.

Iā€™m sure there are some bosses with enrage timers that should be considered a ā€˜mechanicā€™ but were just absolute non-factors in Classic because of WBs and 1.12 balancing.

Huhuran - most guilds just zerged it w/o any NR gear towards the end because it was dead before enough raid damage went out.

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