Qustion about combat tables, I cant find any good data

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
#1

So I do understand the combat tables for auto swings, but special attack combat tables look like they are different. Here is what I am talking about and please inform me if I am wrong here on this, but this is how I think it works.

For special attacks unlike auto attacks it looks like Dodge, parry, block all push crits down, where as with auto swings its hits that get pushed down instead. So am I correct in my thinking here on that crits get pushed down on specials instead of regular hits? Reason I am asking is because I want to calculate some gear, and every single combat table on line talks really only about auto swings but that’s not the entire story when you want to sim things out. Yes I know easy content is easy content but theory crafting is fun, so any help would be nice.

#2

Special attack crits are separate from the table. This means you can block a mortal strike crit for example (damage blocked can’t crit either. 200 damage - 50 damage blocked = 300 damage on crit, same concept as any absorption bubble too). Special attacks also do not suffer glancing blows nor can they be crushing blows. You can’t block an auto crit as an auto cant be a crit if it is blocked.

Auto attacks just have everything on one table and start pushing things off once mitigation gets high enough. Glancing blows are actually the reason why you have crit caps for dual wield classes. 17+9% miss, 8% dodge, 40% glancing blows means without +hit gear you can’t benefit from more than 26% crit on autos which completely replaced normal hits on the table.

#3

Correct, I know how the auto swings work but maybe I was not clear enough in my question above, but this is specifically about special attacks like Sinister Strike, Eviscerate, and so on.

Recap, as I understand it this is how white swings work, just so we are both on the same page here. Critical strike after crit cap is suppressed by miss, and so as you add hit your increased chance to hit will allow your critical strike to take priority over normal hits, this is why with rogues and warriors you may have like a 10% normal hits and 40% crits with the remainder being miss and dodge if you are always behind the target. If you track your parses regardless of the character you will see that your rough chance to crit the listed value on your character sheet and buffs and all that will be usually very close to the parse amount less maybe 3% from crit suppression due to boss mechanics.

Ok, this next part is the confusion for me.

Do special attacks work this same way where the bosses chance to dodge will impact your chance to hit normal special attack OR is it how I am thinking it works and that its different from how the auto swings work and boss dodge does not impact your hit normal specials but the critical strike side of that?

Can anyone confirm this?

#4

Special attacks are a 2 table system. The first table rolls a 1d100 die for miss, dodge, parry, and block only. There are no glancing blows (npcs can’t crushing blow a special attack either). The second rolls a 1d100 to determine if you crit only.

Special attack crits are only suppressed by the 5% boss crit suppression (we only found out about this after blizzard did testing on their own and revealed their findings) and you can’t ever get enough crit to be capped by mitigation (if you don’t hit 17% of your attacks it won’t matter if you crit 100% of the time. That said, if you have 99% crit then 83% of the time you have a 1 in 100 chance of not critting).

To put it simply, Autos are a 1 table die roll. Special attacks have 2 tables with the second for only determining criticals.

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#5

So dodge is calculated first then hit vs crit on special, that is exactly what I was curious about.

So its 5% crit suppression then? I read on several other sites that they thought it was 3%, any chance you got a link to the blizz post on that?

#6

It seems like the post has been removed. Every link I can find to the post is broken. There is a post from beta saying that crit is working as expected with a 1% per level drop in effectiveness. The post I’m talking about is the 14% parry post that I just can’t reach.

The wayback machine doesn’t seem to like the new forums. Conspiracy?

#7

That’s all I could find either, I don’t think you remember wrong but all I could confirm was common place 3% total. Not sure why this stuff is so cryptic either, they should just post the combat tables because it’s so helpful as an illustration of what stats work best for the gear you have at the time, helping everyone to gear up better, and not just bis.

As a matter of I know you don’t remember wrong, I talked with one of my guilds warriors and he was saying the same thing and mentioned the same blue post from what he said is August 2019 or around there.

#8

Found this in the berzerker stance page

#9

Oh very nice! Thank you, now this is for boss level mobs regardless of your weapon skill correct?

#10

I believe so

#11

Understand why they don’t want to give us the math to the combat tables but it annoys me that they don’t because knowing how the system works is part of the fun of theory crafting.