Calling them mythic dungeons makes more sense than heroic+
Mythic dungeons (not mythic+) are harder versions of heroic dungeons with none of the infinite scaling, affixes, etc. of mythic+.
Just a single harder difficulty level.
Then it fits in with the theme of Wrath since that is when they fractured raiding into different raid sizes and different difficulty levels.
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There’s 0 negatives to the changes other than for GDKP players and even than the meta is gonna shift to 10 mans.
Catch up gear for alts and new players isn’t a bad thing. People are being purposely obtuse.
It’s the principal of the thing. Yes, they’re making significant changes to what Classic is. But it’s not just the fact that it’s not #NoChanges. This is a step toward feeding retail designs into a game people are playing to have a different experience. There’s something to be said for the design principals of Classic. Some of us just enjoy the Classic era of the game more. If we wanted Retail, we’d play Retail. Some of us play both. But in order to have that distinction, the two versions of the game need to stay separate.
On top of that, why should raid gear be awarded in 5-man dungeons? While it’s true that armor pieces for previous tiers were sold on vendors for Emblems, that’s quite a different thing from all gear being spread out across the Heroic+ dungeons. The original method for farming emblems to get your catch-up gear is what we are expecting.
There’s a sense of entitlement that has crept into Retail. In my mind, that stands out along with LFR. Consider that RDF eliminated a lot of the social bonds at the server level because you can just be an idiot and never suffer the consequences of being shunned by peers on your server. In LFR, Blizzard’s supposed method for showing people the encounters and environments they’d otherwise miss out on from not raiding, it has turned into an enabler for AFK loot collection and has allowed people to feel entitled to set bonuses and trinket effects because “we’re raiders too!”.
When Blizzard tried to award different loot for LFR after seeing that there was a practice of purposefully doing the minimum to avoid being flagged as AFK, and raiders felt compelled to run LFR for powerful trinket and set bonuses, the folks who felt entitled to that level of gear lost their minds on a scale that caused Blizzard to abort that course and return to giving the AFKs the same sort of loot that raiders were getting.
People argue that the hard-liners are being elitist jerks about prestige and who deserves what. But they don’t consider that the better loot was designed for the harder to complete content. That loot is a reward, and a lure to get people into the harder to run content. It’s not just a question of mechanics. Yeah, ha-ha, old raids aren’t necessarily difficult for a lot of folks, but there’s also the fact that it’s a bigger challenge in coordinating so many people. GDKP has eroded some of that. Just swipe your card for gold, then pay your way through raid content. I’d argue that’s not in-line with the design principals of the original game either, and should be squashed too.
Let the game play out the way it did originally. That’s kind of the point. All these folks trying to do the absolute minimum and paying to skip portions of the game aren’t playing Classic. They’re actively avoiding it, but still want the loot and the power. To do what?
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Such a stretch dear lord another one of you type. How does botting which farms and the ah sells everything tanking markets have anything at all to do with heroic plus. Aside from you both saying how does it hurt you, there is literally nothing else similar. How you guys can take something completely unrelated that doesn’t connect at all factually and just try to turn it into some analogy to support your argument.
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True but usually its the player themselves and their actions or lack thereof that make the difference. Some people want a mobile game where a couple clicks here and there sets you up for hours of automation where you do nothing. I personally blame the game design these days.
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Whether it makes sense or not, they are called Mythic+
False comparison.
One is optional play, one is cheating.
And bots do effect gameplay.
It effects my ability to farm materials like ore and herbs. It effects AH prices on nearly everything. It effects my gameplay in many other ways as well.
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People are calling them mythics because they are a step up from heroics. Normal ->Herioc-> Mythic.
Anyone calling them m+ is wrong though
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Anyone conflating retail and classic dungeon systems are confused.
Retail:
Normal dungeons - level specific, no daily lockouts, rdf enabled
Heroic dungeons - max level, no daily lockouts, rdf enabled
Mythic - max level, daily lockouts, no rdf
Mythic+ - max level, no lockouts, no rdf
Proposed classic
Normal dungeons - same but without rdf
Heroic dungeons - Same as retail mythics
Heroic+ (or whatever you want to call it) - same as retail mythics but harder and with catch up gear.
There is no retail system that is the same as the proposed heroic+, so suggesting as much is inaccurate and just an uninformed talking point.
Edit: to clarify, the only thing in classic that is identical to mythics are heroic dungeons. So complaining they’re adding mythics is missing that we already have mythics. They’re just called heroics.
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There are some retail people that would like it to have an H+ system to get old gear because it would be faster than running the raids.
Me. I am some people.
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Agreed. The raiding playerbase did ultimately suffer as a result of having multiple sizes and difficulties, IMO.
i like the 10man concept and it gets even better with the phase 2 proposed setup. I find it nice that people can form a social group between 5/10/25 people which is scalable and have a chance later on to stay within a content release. Opens up more avenues to keep people closer and not necessarily on top of each other as well as allowing it to happen across multiple group sizes. The question imo is exactly how difficult heroic+ will be … can i level 1-80, gear up in dungeons, gear up in heroics and still be able to run them even if TOGC is the content release?
I’m pretty sure that isn’t accurate at all.
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My understanding of M+ seems to be that its made for 5 man groups that dont raid an avenue to get good gear, now it’s questionable how good it should be but, i think the biggest issue is people feeling like they can’t do anything 15+ related unless you take a specific comp. My guess this is a must as i don’t see why people couldn’t form their own groups that don’t require it especially when xrealm is a thing.
So what exactly is bad about M+ ?
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That’s strictly because people follow meta and think anything that isn’t Lock Hunter Mage is awful, any class and spec can do 15s.
M+ didn’t ruin retail, players ruin the game for themselves.
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Probably part of it. I don’t really know how they play. If people can form their own groups and not think this is an issue themselves, why don’t they?
Time, it takes time to set up your own group. People want things now.
Yeah, TBH I think having so many different difficulties hurts more than the different sizes.
The biggest issue i also see pointed out is time. People don’t have time to raid and the like. So this right here helps them out IMMENSELY without simply giving them easy heroics to stomp through for prior tier goodies. It’s a great reward for casuals they never had before this and wouldnt have seen til later in this expansion. Casuals want to progress too and this is how they can do it. Its like raiding just with a 5man.