Question about circle of life and death

Classes Druid
1

I don’t like to DPS at all, just heal out and I am having some trouble with the double photo legendary. Maybe its a get good type of situation but I feel like my healing isn’t strong enough and I have to spam regrowth.

My question is: Is this a great option to heal with the Germination and abundance talents? Just spamming double rejuv on everyone? From what I understand it gets the job done 15% faster so shouldn’t be better than the Photosynthesis talent that is 20% since I am applying double rejuvenation?

A lot of the times the reason I wipe in mythics(i strictly do mythics) is because the party is taking heavy AOE damage and I don’t think Cenarion ward with photo and the lessons of dark titan is helping me out. Shouldn’t the Germination+ abudance + the Circle of life and death outheal the other legendary combo?

2

So the thing with the germination build is that, yes it could indeed work in this situation, but it forces you to use double the amount of mama unfortunately.
When it comes to the circle of life and death legendary that isn’t going to help your mama problems out at all, yes it’ll heal quicker but not by much it’ll heal it over 14 or 15 secs faster instead of 18-16 secs normally circle of life and death is recommended for those who also does in keys, no covenant spells involved, you can still use abundance even with photosynthesis, your team could also be a huge problem too if they aren’t dodging or using any kinda damage mitigation spells themselves instead of face tanking everything. When it comes to higher keys soul of the forest talent is by far the better choice (Perhaps essential) when it comes to using wildgrowth as of now until we get more mastery later on in the game and then cultivation could shoot ahead

Cenarion ward is more single target based… abundance would be taken more for AOE group healing which is why I took it, since I went necrolord I have plenty of single target healing.
When it comes to Titans lesson legendary it opens up some difficult situations cause if you don’t use those clear castings and keep life bloom on you for the 20% healing you may lose out on a lot of healing

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3

Don’t take Cenarian Ward anywhere but maybe PVP.

Germination + CoLD is technically a lot of healing but it’s stupid mana intensive. Go Flourish with CoLD if you do choose to take it.

The real point of CoLD on resto is actually for the DPS increase. It eats mana kinda hard. You go from never having to drink on anything 10+ to drinking a time or 3 between Prides.

Honestly though, if you can’t DT/Photo, go Flourish. It’s less brain intensive and gives you a very powerful CD, and doesn’t have the drawbacks of Germination.

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4

honestly i’'d have to disagree from a mythic+ standpoint. Cenarion Ward is awesome…I actually prefer abundance in PvP lol…

Anyway, I spent the better half of the season using a photo build with dark titan’s, and it was wonderful. but cenarion ward synergizes very well with a Verdant Infusion piece. I don’t get nearly as many clearcasts since I tried out this build, but i’ve found my throughput to be a lot better once i learned how to juggle the swiftmends correctly.

that being said, i think Circle works with almost any build, I know i can make it work with photo, but I’m going to agree that germination is probably the worst option you could pick to match it. It would benefit you to use one of the other talents like flourish, which was suggested.

anyway, good luck…

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5

Your getting the same amount of health for the mana investment, it’s just going out faster.

Say your rejuv heals for 1000 points over X seconds, and it costs 100 mana. (Made up numbers obviously)

If it heals for 1000 points over X-3 seconds and costs 100 mana your not delivering MORE healing, your just delivering it FASTER. Because of that the net healing will be more over time, if you keep the hots up all the time, but the mana cost won’t be decreased.

IE it’s possible to get out More healing faster but your mana efficiency will not improve.

Circle is probably the best of the general legendaries, but I don’t think it’s BIS for anything but M+ feral druid.

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@Quayle, Is necro better than night fae for resto druid? I have trouble for example in theater of pain, when there is extreme movement I throw rejuvs out but they aren’t enough to heal out my team and I need to hard cast regrowth to keep ppl alive. There was one time yesterday where on the pull where there is an abomination and jumping adds where I used the ruby trinket on the pull then wold growth and rejuv all the team, convoked with the haste buff from the convenant and tranq’d and 2 of the members died.

@Vincent, Thank you for the explanation.

@Mokon, But Flourish is a 1.5 minute cd, I won’t be able to use it on each pull, maybe after every other pull.

@Saithis, thanks!

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7

I know exactly what pack you’re talking about there is a certain mob that has to be stunned or cc’ed if he gets a cast off, you receive a healing debuff each time, so in that situation that was not your fault.

When it comes to covenants, it honestly your personal choice… I like necrolord cause of adaptive swarm I like to heal and deal damage but I also really liked the shield ability.

Depends on what conduits you take as well. Not everyone has the same conduits and ect like for me I went for the clear casting conduit because Im running dark lessons and usually get about 4 or 5 if I’m lucky of free procs per min normally you’d want to run with the wild growth one for even more AOE healing

8

remember once you get to higher keys, druid gameplay from a healer perspective becomes a cooldown management challenge, not just skill revolving around your global usage.

for events like pride, or heavy pulse damage (like ToP has a few examples), you want flourish to be saved for these types of events. treat it like a raid cooldown and use it when required, not just whenever. this will kind of help you explore other tricks/combinations you can do to keep your party alive, while still having your powerful cooldowns up for the hard parts. :slight_smile:

that’s one of the reasons i like having strong trinkets - they just help cover you with any snafu’s that happen along the way.

but yeah, give flourish a shot when you start dealing with pride. the 1.5 min cd will be appreciated in a sea of 3 minuters…it also helps you save a TON of mana when you have to blanket, like on a grievous week!

9

I’m going to assume Mokun meant Germination here since the rest of his argument pertains to that.

I don’t really love Circle as a healing legendary. It makes maintaining our HoTs more painful since they don’t last as long. I absolutely would NOT use Circle with Germination, since the latter already taxes our mana and GCDs and the legendary is only going to compound those issues. You’re going to make Holy Priests look mana efficient by comparison. =P Circle shines when you’re trying to to maximize DPS.

I too made the Dark Titan’s Lesson first, and found it a little underwhelming. Photosynthesis just isn’t a good match for the way damage occurs in the current season and crop of dungeons. I’ve been much happier with Flourish and Memory of the Mother Tree; though, I hear good things about Verdant Infusion too.

10

Actually, I meant Cenarian Ward.

I have never ever went, “wow, what I really need in this PVE situation is a mediocre 30second CD hot that only applies after damage is done and only to one character, and only for a short duration.”

I don’t have wipes because the tank needs 15k more healing over 8 seconds once every 30 seconds.
I have wipes because of total group damage going out to multiple people at once and at some point I run out of GCDs to handle it all and 2 dps die because neither are getting enough.
Or because people do something dumb and get 1 shot, or we get flooded with extra mobs.

Neither of those are solved by CW.

I have however had arena matches in the past where I very much did want a hot that would trigger when someone got opened up on, and would help me stack on the mastery bonus.

11

Then you’d be wrong. You can pre-cast CW and have it up again when you need it. It’s the best mythic + in that row.

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12

In response to the Cenarion Ward thing - that’s entirely a playstyle type of argument - and kind of broad imo. I have to be vocal about this, because lots of new druids come to these forums and often seek advice or are confused about talent choice for mythic+/pvp as a healer…I don’t think you are providing a fair/correct explanation on the ability…

Like i Explained - I think cenarion ward has great synergy with something like Verdant Infusion (which is an S tier legendary power this season) and flourish. I use it at a high level for mythic+.

no single heal is meant to “solve” anything on its own - hence why Druid mastery scales the more heals you have working together. So you’re correct that Cenarion ward doesn’t solve anything alone…but when you are stacking multiple hots on the target then infuse it, or flourish…cenarion ward is one of the strongest sustain heals you have.

Photosynthesis is a great talent too - but vs pride, it’s just not as strong…if the seasonal affix is different next patch, it might come back with feral kitten affinity, who knows. Metas change every single season for druid.

In short - I think you’re totally underestimating the power of the talent. but - like i said - it’s a playstyle thing. I like lifebloom builds - most other druids on the bnet forums are not experienced/skilled enough to pull one of those off - doesn’t mean it’s a “bad” build though. ya know? :wink:

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13

In addition to being mana intensive, Germination is also really GCD intensive. Sure it’s nice to be able to stack an extra Rejuv while moving, but it takes a LOT of mana and GCDs to get the most out of it. I switched to Flourish for the extra CD and have not looked back.

You do what works for you. For myself, I can think of a lot of times where having an extra mastery multiplier on the tank is what kept them upright.

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14

Circle is taken due to the fact that it is a good overall increase to your dps as well. If you’re taking it strictly for healing, then you’ll find there’s better legendaries.

What makes verdant stand out with flourish and cen ward in m+ is your ability to set and forger your tank and focus on healing others or adding dps while healing is not intensive.

Germination is just requires too many GCDs and too much mana for m+. You’ll also be spaming regrowth to spot heal a lot more than tossing a few extra rejuvs because they aren’t fast enough to save someone in trouble.

Dark titans and photo fall behind for a couple of reasons, but it’s not necessarily a bad choice. You just have better options that don’t require maintaining an additional hot.

2 Likes
15

You’re getting a lot of differing opinions about talents and legendaries, so here’s another one.

Healing in keys is mostly about keeping your tank up and then throwing a few hots out to keep the others alive. If they’re making big mistakes, they’re likely to die. Our spot healing isn’t great, so there’s a finite amount of mistakes you can heal through.

To that end, certain playstyles are going to be better than others because of this caveat.

Dark Titan’s legendary (double lifebloom) is one of those ideas that looks great on paper, but doesn’t really fit the current mold. Keeping up two lifeblooms adds unnecessary globals that could be used elsewhere to make the run go smoother. You’re likely to want to use both lifeblooms during prides. However, photosynthesis is just not good enough to heal through prides on high keys. Flourish is.

With germination, you really need to be using the rejuv legendary. While you can probably have some measure of success with this build in m+, rejuv spam is not going to get the job done in m+ like it is more successful in raids.

What many top end resto druids use is the swiftmend legendary with C Ward, soul of the forest, and flourish.

Currently, tanks take an extraordinary amount of damage as compared to the end of BFA. In order to help them out, single target healing is at a premium. This is where C Ward comes into play. One of the previous comments shamed C Ward for only being active for 8 seconds. With this build, its uptime is hugely increased.

C Ward is our single best heal by leaps and bounds. If you follow the method described below, C Ward will likely be at or near the top of your healing done.

Once C Ward starts healing, you can swiftmend to add time to the hot (this affects other hots on the target as well). You can either swiftmend it again once the cd on swiftmend is available, or you can flourish if the timing lines up with needing to use flourish on a pride or a big pull. You can keep a C Ward hot ticking for about 35-40 seconds this way which means you can delay your next C Ward until that hot expires and repeat the process again with swiftmend.

This synergizes really well with soul of the forest as you can swiftmend the C Ward hot and then wild growth the party (if they’re taking damage) for the beginnings of a good aoe heal. If you’re in a pinch and everyone is getting hit hard (like the end of pride), swiftmend to extend the C Ward, wild growth, tranquility to 5 stacks and immediately flourish. If people are dying through that and spot heals after the flourish, then you’re either extremely undergeared (or they are) or they are taking huge amounts of unnecessary damage.

This playstyle is probably going to change once we no longer need to heal prides, but our mana efficiency is going to take a huge hurt, and tyrannical weeks are going to suck even more than they do already.

We shall see what the 9.1 meta is when it is figured out.

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16

how is circle for balance druids? i’m thinking about crafting one, since my friend just came back as a resto druid…i want something that is obviously good for healers, but something I can take as a “casual” secondary legendary for my dps…

is the boost to dps great or just meh?

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Just popping in as I have tried all 4 covenants (some longer than others) and have settled on my favorite covenant to heal with being Necrolord entirely from a Mythic + standpoint

Ultimately what it comes down to is the following:

  1. Are you using convoke to heal or as a Heart of the Wild with pride Balance Affinity convoke DPS CD. If you are using it as a healing cd I find it underwhelming compared to necrolord as the spells and targets are random and with good play you can already maintain rejuv and wild growth on the DPS for hard pulls.

  2. Are you pushing high keys (higher than 15)?

I personally got KSM with circle of life and death and found it, as others have said, very mana intensive. It helped but when they buffed Verdant Infusion I switched to it and never looked back. I recall being almost oom by the time pride was killed to not needing to drink at all with about 25% mana left and innervate still ready for an emergency (but that was going from the most mana inefficient legendary to the most mana efficient one).

Higher keys tend to have massive tank dmg and so having lifebloom, rejuv, regrowth, wild growth, cenarion ward and adaptive swarm on the tank and swiftmending it means you essentially can ignore the tank for more than 10 seconds. Especially since adaptive swarm counts as an extra hot for the sake of mastery and buffs all periodic heals by 25% (or more with conduit) it can add in crazy numbers (and also gets extended). Add in a flourish with all that and you can ignore the tank for 25-30sec (other than swiftmend). This actually frees you up to hot up the rest of your group, spam regrowth if needed or DPS/dot.

Inversely the one place where I feel like this setup really hurts is De Other Side on Tyranical week as missing heart of the wild convoke makes the totem add hard to kill unless the tank is doing high DPS as well. Ultimately it comes down again as, is your key failing to not meeting the healing requirement or the DPS requirement.

I do still like circle of life and death but I just haven’t tried using it as Resto since Verdant Infusion was buffed as I find Verdant far and away better at pretty much everything. That isn’t to say there aren’t other builds that you can have great success with, just experiment around and find the play style that clicks for you.