A couple of things first before we dip-dive.
Gear scaling in arena = problematic. If they don't earn it, or work for it...they don't deserve it, and they shouldn't have a free ride.
Now invested approx. 700ish arena 2's games this season, and shouldn't have to worry about fresh 120's, and their carrying partner.
Only 2 Seals of Wartorn fate per week vs. the 3 in Legion.
It takes over a month to accumulate 10x Quartermaster Coins.
If the weekly chest, and other items are ilvl370+ for 1800 bracket, why is it that I only get an ilvl365 upgrade coin? Please fix it.
Remember in legion how you could scrap gear you don't need for x amount of marks for better pvp gear?
Instead they are now vendored, or scrap-o'matic botted for nothing useful.
Seriously, what's going on?
Dire fixes needed.
(Please keep in mind I've had a couple of drinks, but thought about it enough to bring it up).
Nothing, but honesty here. If found completely illogical, please disregard.
Thanks -
Sincerely, Drachenstein, or (As of right now Drunkenstein, or Captain Drach Sparrow).
Add note: The rum is gone.
First off, cut it out with the elitist comment about gear being "earned" or "worked for". The attitude that somehow gear should triumph skill is exactly what makes competitive arena such a joke. If you require some sort of gear difference in order to win games, I suggest you either get better at the game or go slay dragons. Arena is supposed to be the competitive showcase of player skill... yet so many morons are resistant to that.
How is beating somebody who is 80k HP doing 3k DPS rewarding and fun? Queue a skirmish or battle ground to stroke your ego.
I will agree that secondary stats should matter but it should be left up to the player to decide based on their play style.
The scaling right now is complete trash, implemented poorly/incorrectly, and is easily avoided by scaling everybody to the same item level inside of rated play.
How is beating somebody who is 80k HP doing 3k DPS rewarding and fun? Queue a skirmish or battle ground to stroke your ego.
I will agree that secondary stats should matter but it should be left up to the player to decide based on their play style.
The scaling right now is complete trash, implemented poorly/incorrectly, and is easily avoided by scaling everybody to the same item level inside of rated play.
@ Langly, based off of your comments you have no idea what it's like to grind things out, and actually work for the things you have. I actually had to grind the 600-800 gold for my epic ground mount back in the day. (Before flying). Clearly going off of your achievements you haven't had the experience of being a legacy player.
Now I'm going to be elitist.
80 exalted reputations.
109th different character titles.
Loremaster for every expansion.
360+ mounts collected.
/played on a single character 566 days, 5 hours, 35 mins, and x mount of seconds.
I mean if you want to talk facts, and label me as something I'm not....well I can easily go there, and have an ego about it.
When it comes down to it. I really don't find any opinion you have to be valid due to lack of experience.
Now I'm going to be elitist.
80 exalted reputations.
109th different character titles.
Loremaster for every expansion.
360+ mounts collected.
/played on a single character 566 days, 5 hours, 35 mins, and x mount of seconds.
I mean if you want to talk facts, and label me as something I'm not....well I can easily go there, and have an ego about it.
When it comes down to it. I really don't find any opinion you have to be valid due to lack of experience.
@ Langly, based off of your comments you have no idea what it's like to grind things out, and actually work for the things you have. I actually had to grind the 600-800 gold for my epic ground mount back in the day. (Before flying). Clearly going off of your achievements you haven't had the experience of being a legacy player.
Now I'm going to be elitist.
80 exalted reputations.
109th different character titles.
Loremaster for every expansion.
360+ mounts collected.
/played on a single character 566 days, 5 hours, 35 mins, and x mount of seconds.
I mean if you want to take facts, and label me as something I'm not....well I can easily go there, and have an ego about it.
When it comes down to it. I really don't find any opinion you have to be valid due to lack of experience.
That's great you can list off a bunch of meaningless achievements that have zero to do with what I said and I applaud your effort you gave to get those over the years, but your experience inside of an MMO that is now trying to break into e-sports is irrelevant.
I was not attacking your WoW experience; rather, I was speaking on your apparent lack of competitive gaming experience. If you think this is the way competitive gaming should be, nothing more than a grind fest for gear, then why not slay dragons instead?
And I've had this account since the very beginning of the game, so I'm not sure where your pulling your data from (although I have a pretty good idea).
11/13/2018 02:39 PMPosted by Drachenstein@ Langly, based off of your comments you have no idea what it's like to grind things out, and actually work for the things you have.
I can take a lot, but 1 thing I will not stand for is some poop stained BfA Assassination Rogue coming in here acting like he earned anything in 2v2 when his spec is at 15% rep and kills with the tap of a their mouse because blizzard can't spend 3 seconds balancing their game.
11/13/2018 02:43 PMPosted by Langly@ Langly, based off of your comments you have no idea what it's like to grind things out, and actually work for the things you have. I actually had to grind the 600-800 gold for my epic ground mount back in the day. (Before flying). Clearly going off of your achievements you haven't had the experience of being a legacy player.
Now I'm going to be elitist.
80 exalted reputations.
109th different character titles.
Loremaster for every expansion.
360+ mounts collected.
/played on a single character 566 days, 5 hours, 35 mins, and x mount of seconds.
I mean if you want to take facts, and label me as something I'm not....well I can easily go there, and have an ego about it.
When it comes down to it. I really don't find any opinion you have to be valid due to lack of experience.
That's great you can list off a bunch of meaningless achievements that have zero to do with what I said and I applaud your effort you gave to get those over the years, but your experience inside of an MMO that is now trying to break into e-sports is irrelevant.
I was not attacking your WoW experience; rather, I was speaking on your apparent lack of competitive gaming experience.
First off there is nothing elitist about my initial statement, and furthermore I have every right to question the rewards for something I have fought so hard for to maintain. If I felt I were entitled I would demand it, or unsub like a lot of the oldschoolers already have. Instead I am looking for a means to find balance.
On one side of the coin cool, you want to nestle, and baby the freshly level gained 120's donned in their green items great. I don't think it's right, and I don't think it to be in bad taste to have an opinion about it.
If you're going to allow such, then appropriately reward the people who've put in the time. To me it's common sense, and requires no such argument to the validity or the facts presented before you.
The fact that you mentioned there even was a gear scaling issue, no matter how big, or how small....still proves that there is an issue.
Going on to say that I am an elitist is thee single most unfounded comment, not to mention you had no grounds in which to say it in the first place.
Enough said.
11/13/2018 02:39 PMPosted by Drachenstein@ Langly, based off of your comments you have no idea what it's like to grind things out, and actually work for the things you have. I actually had to grind the 600-800 gold for my epic ground mount back in the day. (Before flying). Clearly going off of your achievements you haven't had the experience of being a legacy player.
Now I'm going to be elitist.
80 exalted reputations.
109th different character titles.
Loremaster for every expansion.
360+ mounts collected.
/played on a single character 566 days, 5 hours, 35 mins, and x mount of seconds.
I mean if you want to talk facts, and label me as something I'm not....well I can easily go there, and have an ego about it.
When it comes down to it. I really don't find any opinion you have to be valid due to lack of experience.
While gear progression is a major part of this game and should be a part of PVP,
simply saying you deserve to win because of gear is stupid. Your advantage for playing more and playing your class more is likely the right stats that someone won't have for their class.
And honestly the right 2ndary stats and the right Azerite traits might be more important than strict ilvl
<span class="truncated">...</span>
That's great you can list off a bunch of meaningless achievements that have zero to do with what I said and I applaud your effort you gave to get those over the years, but your experience inside of an MMO that is now trying to break into e-sports is irrelevant.
I was not attacking your WoW experience; rather, I was speaking on your apparent lack of competitive gaming experience.
First off there is nothing elitist about my initiate statement, and furthermore I have every right to question the rewards for something I have fought for so hard to maintain. If I felt I were entitled I demand it, or unsub like a lot of the oldschoolers already have. Instead I am looking for a means to find balance.
On one side of the coin cool, you want to nestle, and baby the freshly level gained 120's donned in their green items great. I don't think it's right, and I don't think it to be in bad taste to have an opinion about it.
If you're going to allow such, then appropriately reward the people who've put in the time. To me it's common sense, and requires no such argument to the validity or the facts presented before you.
The fact that you mentioned there even was a gear scaling issue, no matter how big, or how small....still proves that there is an issue.
Going on to say that I am an elitist is thee single most unfounded comment, not to mention you had no grounds in which to say it in the first place.
Enough said.
Look, I 100% agree there is a scaling issue... that's not even an argument I tried to make.
I will never agree with having to grind for gear to compete in competitive play. Do you really play just to stomp people with less gear? Wouldn't you prefer to know you beat a team because of outplaying, rather than them having 30k less HP and 3k less DPS than you despite the scaling? Do you really learn anything from these games?
I don't understand WoW PVP players who think this way. I come from a decent level of competitive play in another game and it's mind boggling when I try to explain to my friends how this whole thing works. Do you really think subjecting new players to the hell that is RNG gearing is good for participation on the ladder?
If you get your kicks out of rolling over fresh 120s, then queue a battle ground or skirmish.
How about next Blizzcon, they make all of the teams grind the ladder for a week and whatever gear they get via RNG is all they get to use?
I have played against some low ilvl players this season in arena but didnt really feel like they had some kind of advantage or got a free ride because of scaling. In general if I lose it's because I got outplayed or the comp was stronger or combination of both.
I don't even know what Hexxas is saying. I won't pay him any mind.
Langly, all I'm saying is something is wrong with people still in greens in 1800+ brackets. I mean look if they're in 1800+ doing games chances are they have already gotten higher ilvl gear, but choose not to wear it because of some odd advantage, a lot of people are noticing it, not just me.
My thing about the coins too, like come on! It takes forever to grind them out, and once you do have 10, you should get the appropriate reward for being in whatever bracket you're in. I mean it's the only thing that makes sense to me.
Nothing on here is about having an ego, and the only reason I brought up anything achievement wise was just to show like ok, if were going to go that route then fine. I'm not even about stuff like that, It's whatever.
Out of every expansion this is the first for me to really try. I don't even play with add-ons at all. For me there is just too much going on with that. So I mean it to 2k, and dropped down, big deal. It happens when you pug, and I know that.
There's something funny about getting handled by random people with half your health pool that makes no sense.
I don't feel entitled to anything. The only thing I feel entitled to is logging on because I paid monthly. That's all.
Everything that is going on in this post is not what you think. It honestly went in a direction that it shouldn't have to begin with. Maybe its the wording/how it's written, I don't know, but it definitely has been totally taken out of context.
Langly, all I'm saying is something is wrong with people still in greens in 1800+ brackets. I mean look if they're in 1800+ doing games chances are they have already gotten higher ilvl gear, but choose not to wear it because of some odd advantage, a lot of people are noticing it, not just me.
My thing about the coins too, like come on! It takes forever to grind them out, and once you do have 10, you should get the appropriate reward for being in whatever bracket you're in. I mean it's the only thing that makes sense to me.
Nothing on here is about having an ego, and the only reason I brought up anything achievement wise was just to show like ok, if were going to go that route then fine. I'm not even about stuff like that, It's whatever.
Out of every expansion this is the first for me to really try. I don't even play with add-ons at all. For me there is just too much going on with that. So I mean it to 2k, and dropped down, big deal. It happens when you pug, and I know that.
There's something funny about getting handled by random people with half your health pool that makes no sense.
I don't feel entitled to anything. The only thing I feel entitled to is logging on because I paid monthly. That's all.
Everything that is going on in this post is not what you think. It honestly went in a direction that it shouldn't have to begin with. Maybe its the wording/how it's written, I don't know, but it definitely has been totally taken out of context.
I am of the opinion that you should have both ends, scaling and gearing.
Without scaling of some sort, low level characters are just facestomped.
On the other hand, this is an MMORPG, ever since blizzard focused on the esport aspect only, arena has declined. This expansion its participation is higher since there was both the illusion of no scaling and easy rewards.
The best compromise is that scaling happens to bring people up to a certain ilvl. For example, at the start of the expansion it would start new players at 330 and increase the ilvl up by ~5 ilvls a week the first 6 weeks (360 in 1 1/2 months), and then go on a diminishing returns curve of some sort (4 ilvls for 2 weeks, 3 ilvls for 2 weeks, etc) so it is more realistic to actual gearing, while keeping them behind still on gear if they are new, giving those who grind an edge, but not one so large that it can't be overcome in the lower brackets for the player to hit rival and quickly grind decent gear irregardless.
The scaling was never part of the 'esport' aspect. It was only implemented for new players to actually enjoy pvp over being farmed and in the spirit of competition. The mantra of it being done so skill was all that mattered was never stated as a reason, and wasn't a major reason casual players stood behind it. Players mainly stood behind it because pvp was literally end game geared players punting new characters while they tried to catch up to them in gear.
While the Legion 1% for every 10 ilvls was a good attempt, 1% for 10 ilvls is a damn joke in gearing disparity. It also didn't allow any stat itemization choices which greatly limited both playstyle choices and eliminated the RPG aspect of actual choice in your gearing.
TLDR: A gear disparity was always intended, even with the scaling system (see legion 1% for 10 ilvls system), this was never done for 'esport' or 'spirit of competition'. It was done because at the end of an expansion, players would be 100+ ilvls above a new character who would have to grind while being essentially punted and yelled at by teammates because they were worthless as even meat shields. A gear disparity is fine, it just shouldn't be drastic and scaling should be implemented on a base ilvl system that scales you up slowly rather than a current 'everyone is pretty much on equal footing' system.
Without scaling of some sort, low level characters are just facestomped.
On the other hand, this is an MMORPG, ever since blizzard focused on the esport aspect only, arena has declined. This expansion its participation is higher since there was both the illusion of no scaling and easy rewards.
The best compromise is that scaling happens to bring people up to a certain ilvl. For example, at the start of the expansion it would start new players at 330 and increase the ilvl up by ~5 ilvls a week the first 6 weeks (360 in 1 1/2 months), and then go on a diminishing returns curve of some sort (4 ilvls for 2 weeks, 3 ilvls for 2 weeks, etc) so it is more realistic to actual gearing, while keeping them behind still on gear if they are new, giving those who grind an edge, but not one so large that it can't be overcome in the lower brackets for the player to hit rival and quickly grind decent gear irregardless.
The scaling was never part of the 'esport' aspect. It was only implemented for new players to actually enjoy pvp over being farmed and in the spirit of competition. The mantra of it being done so skill was all that mattered was never stated as a reason, and wasn't a major reason casual players stood behind it. Players mainly stood behind it because pvp was literally end game geared players punting new characters while they tried to catch up to them in gear.
While the Legion 1% for every 10 ilvls was a good attempt, 1% for 10 ilvls is a damn joke in gearing disparity. It also didn't allow any stat itemization choices which greatly limited both playstyle choices and eliminated the RPG aspect of actual choice in your gearing.
TLDR: A gear disparity was always intended, even with the scaling system (see legion 1% for 10 ilvls system), this was never done for 'esport' or 'spirit of competition'. It was done because at the end of an expansion, players would be 100+ ilvls above a new character who would have to grind while being essentially punted and yelled at by teammates because they were worthless as even meat shields. A gear disparity is fine, it just shouldn't be drastic and scaling should be implemented on a base ilvl system that scales you up slowly rather than a current 'everyone is pretty much on equal footing' system.
11/13/2018 05:35 PMPosted by HealbotuserI am of the opinion that you should have both ends, scaling and gearing.
Without scaling of some sort, low level characters are just facestomped.
On the other hand, this is an MMORPG, ever since blizzard focused on the esport aspect only, arena has declined. This expansion its participation is higher since there was both the illusion of no scaling and easy rewards.
The best compromise is that scaling happens to bring people up to a certain ilvl. For example, at the start of the expansion it would start new players at 330 and increase the ilvl up by ~5 ilvls a week the first 6 weeks (360 in 1 1/2 months), and then go on a diminishing returns curve of some sort (4 ilvls for 2 weeks, 3 ilvls for 2 weeks, etc) so it is more realistic to actual gearing, while keeping them behind still on gear if they are new, giving those who grind an edge, but not one so large that it can't be overcome in the lower brackets for the player to hit rival and quickly grind decent gear irregardless.
The scaling was never part of the 'esport' aspect. It was only implemented for new players to actually enjoy pvp over being farmed and in the spirit of competition. The mantra of it being done so skill was all that mattered was never stated as a reason, and wasn't a major reason casual players stood behind it. Players mainly stood behind it because pvp was literally end game geared players punting new characters while they tried to catch up to them in gear.
While the Legion 1% for every 10 ilvls was a good attempt, 1% for 10 ilvls is a damn joke in gearing disparity. It also didn't allow any stat itemization choices which greatly limited both playstyle choices and eliminated the RPG aspect of actual choice in your gearing.
TLDR: A gear disparity was always intended, even with the scaling system (see legion 1% for 10 ilvls system), this was never done for 'esport' or 'spirit of competition'. It was done because at the end of an expansion, players would be 100+ ilvls above a new character who would have to grind while being essentially punted and yelled at by teammates because they were worthless as even meat shields. A gear disparity is fine, it just shouldn't be drastic and scaling should be implemented on a base ilvl system that scales you up slowly rather than a current 'everyone is pretty much on equal footing' system.
I never saw it that way before, but it makes sense. Thanks for the post, seems very informative. I feel better about the experiences I've been having.
Wish we could trade the coins in for Ap