That’s how it worked in Metzen’s WoW, but we’re not in Metzen’s WoW anymore. With the introduction of Zereth Mortis in particular, the specifics of how a Reality deity-construct ended up in the Shadowlands where they have their own reigning Death deity-construct pantheon are not apparent. Given that the Shadowlands is part of a system—a Machine of Death—it would be bizarre if every single pantheon inevitably ended up in the Shadowlands (assuming here that over a long enough stretch of time, the probability of them dying becomes effectively guaranteed after demonstrating that they can die).
I suppose Argus being tampered with is the big missing question mark. Although I would then be left wondering what the Plane of Order is if the Order Pantheon resides in our reality.
There was a reference in Ogmot’s Dream Journal
" Other hammers here now. Dey talk and talk bout Argus. Bout da one dat got wakened. Bout great victory dat our enemy not even notice."
The great victory was probably the breaking of Arbiter.
Zovaal’s goal it seems is to unmake everything except the Shadowlands which he, the Proto Pantheon of Death and Argus would rule for eternity as he makes a new Reality based around Death.
I haven’t seen a Pyromancer video… but alot of people were guessing that. It was one of the more popular theories. It makes more sense than a direct assault from Denathrius.
I posted a theory a while back that ended up close to the mark :
I am just glad Blizzard is answering something, instead of leaving it out there for people to guess.
If you read that thread I posted in, in GD, it seems GD was 90% sure it was Denathrius himself, and not Argus, and that the question had already been answered. But I wasn’t as certain.
how does it retcon the Jailer being the big baddie the whole time trope? At this point, Sargeras was either a fool being led around or eventually became aware of Zovaal’s plan and tried to stop it in his own way. ./shrug
Sargeras wasn’t duped. The Nathrezim were just extra careful to keep their plans running parallel to his for the duration of the Burning Crusade. He was never brought directly in contact with death because his “agents” took care of that for him while he focused on bringing his perfect order to the cosmos. While he was regenerating after the first invasion of Azeroth failed, they were able to work through is generals, Archimonde and Kil’jaeden. Those two just took for granted that the nathrezim’s loyalty to Sargeras was unquestioning and listened any time they offered new toys like the lich king to work with.
I also posted a larger explanation from their perspective in a thread here.
If we assume he was the big baddie all along then that would mean he planned for us to somehow be able to defeat an entire Titan and kill it enough that it would gank the Arbiter. But to even get to that point would have been a ludicrously lucky series of events, including us rescuing Eonar, and her rezzing us after we died. Even getting into Antorus required a chain of events hinging entirely on unknowns.
This, on the other hand, makes it appear as if he took advantage of an opportunity, unless the big bad of all creation is literally just a gambling addict. Argus being the reason the Arbiter broke is the better choice, for sure, but also doesn’t jive with the ‘master plan’ shtick because the chances of us actually killing Argus were slim to none.
Maybe, if Argus killed us, and was infused with more Death magic, he would’ve become powerful to invade the Shadowlands and kill the Arbiter himself, or something like that, so the Jailer would succeed anyway.
I think the predestination need of it is the bigger problem. To make it rational doesn’t take luck, it takes absolute locked destiny.
Another phrase is true course. People in this era normally reject the idea out of hand. It’s so baked into this story now that I can’t really see any meaningful escape to self determination/freewill from it.
Even if we defeat him, because of the posit existing already, we have no way to actually imagine characters making their own decisions in the future. That Zovaal was one thread in fates loom… is nothing more than that… the weave shall continue…
No Argus was the exception since it appears Sargeras pumped him up with death magics which triggered his soul to be sent to the Shadowlands, which caused the original arbiter to error out. It’s likely the Dread Lords coordinated this with Zovaal to insure that Denathrius would be poised to “offer help” when the anima drought occurred by their actions.
We don’t know if Sargeras was a pawn or a useful idiot, but he played right into the Jailer’s hands. He even was expected to fail allowing for Zovaal’s escape. Denathrius must of been using his Dread Lords as go between agents and coordinating the use of death magics on the nascent titan.
not really…a master planner and strategist would have plans on top of plans as well as plans that parallels with other plans. Like having multiple fishing rods in the water to catch more fish…To have one master plan would indeed be foolish. Like they said about the Primus, he would even allow himself to be defeated if he knew he would succeed later on in a bigger way, “Won the battle yet lost the war”.
Again, if Argus had lived, then he would have killed Azeroth anyways…Sargeras could have killed the planet if he wanted by cleaving it apart. Clearly the entity inside our planet is much more important than previously thought. Zovaal appears to want to kill Azeroth as per his raid encounter mechanics…
Zovaal had numerous “Plan Bs” from Dreadlords, Argus, Sylvanas, Arthas, Denathrius (even if the Arbiter was still up, Daddy D was the supplier of Anima to the Shadowlands), and the Burning Legion. Some of those paths crossed, others never knew about each other. ALL of those entities/organizations were working for the silent benefactor, Zovaal.
Argus’s Spell we interrupted would have had the same effect as Zovaal killing Azeroth ritualistically so Argus would have killed Azeroth the moment his Spell succeeded along with Sargeras!
N’Zoth’s strategy to save us from Zovaal following our victory against Argus was simply to kill Azeroth then rule the Black Empire following her demise. The Void Lords may want a Titan but Zovaal sacrificing the Soul of Azeroth to end all Cosmic Realms except the Shadowlands could not be borne thus the order to kill her was given.
N’Zoth following the Hour of Twilight was banking on us killing Argus and either succumbing to him while he killed Azeroth dead or us not releasing him due to not bringing the Dagger thus letting him kill Azeroth while imprisoned.
Either way the death of Argus gave Reality some Hope as he would have done what Zovaal would do if he sacrificed Azeroth: End all existence.
Zovaal now has to risk himself and will fall to us as a result. Argus was his greatest defeat whether or not he believes it!
N’zoth never wanted to kill Azeroth just corrupt her to become a Void Titan. One so effused by the void she would be the harbinger for the forces of darkness. I don’t think the Void Lords ever wanted to kill the universe as much as they want to consume it all and/or fuse themselves to very essence of every cosmological being. Old Gods are here to corrupt not kill and N’zoth even mentioned this.
At Silithus the Shaman and Druids are trying to purge Void Corruption from the Wound in Azeroth and Magni specifically states that Azeroth is dying which is only resolved by N’Zoth’s demise!
The Void Lords want a Void Titan to reshape the Cosmos yet Zovaal wants to sacrifice Azeroth’s World Soul to end all Cosmic Forces except the Shadowlands! With Zereth Mortis he can do just that!
Do you really think the Void Lords are going to allow Azeroth’s World Soul to exist with how much of a liability it is!? Of course not! They immediately deemed her too much of a liability for that!
There are other World Souls in the Great Dark Beyond who are more than capable of becoming Void Titans so Azeroth isn’t necessary and thus is on the “Kill as quickly as possible” list alongside the Legion’s Argus!
In ABT it is explicitly stated that the Pantheon will use Argus’ soul to imprison Sargeras. Meaning that his soul was used to do that. So how can his soul be sent to the Shadowlands if it was consumed to imprison Sargeras? It is basically the same situtation when it is stated that Zul used Rezans soul to resurrect Dazar. Only for us to see Rezan in the maw in Shadowlands. Before anyone says this, blizzard has used “essence” and “soul” interchangeably. I mean Eonar refers to her world soul as her “essence” in her encounter.
Another example of “rule of cool” storytelling which requires previously established lore to be thrown into the gutter. Honestly it feels like the current writers are Pyromancer simps. Whatever out there theory he comes up with will be reality in due time.
We don’t actually know that for certain.
For all we know, the Titans we know about now are the only ones in existence.