PvP Templates were one of the most hated systems ever introduced into the game in Legion because it removed the players choice and ability to customize or create a build they enjoy playing. So many of us quit since a core feature of the game was removed. Being hard locked into Secondary stats which is what makes your build doesn’t work in an RPG game so the Dev agreed to remove them.
Fast forward to now, we ended up right back there again with NO AVAILABLE PvP gear at the vendor that many of us need to make a build. To make this worse now PvP gear scales so in order to make the build you want you have to wear lower level M+ or Raid gear since they have the ideal stats for your build. Which feels bad.
Look at most fully geared PvP players they all have the same boring stats. Most of them with 8% crit (ewwww) Either no Haste and Mastery and a bunch of Versa. The problem is no builds are made with Versa. You just put too much of it on all the PvP gear making it feel like we have Templates again and that sucks!
Where is the Haste/Mastery or Crit/Mastery PvP gear? How can we reach the levels of Crit/Haste and Mastery we need to make a build work if the gear doesn’t exist. BFA gearing was infinitely better. At least the PvP gear a lot of us wanted existed. People were stacking Crit, Haste and Mastery builds in BFA with their respected amps.
Say what you want about BFA but at least there were tons of ways to play your character which felt good!! This seems to also be a problem in PvE too between Dom gear, Leggos, and lack of socket options to gem for stats you need to hit breakpoints.
To have Conquest points and nothing to spend it on because you don’t see any gear you want feel extremely bad. Sorry but a lot of us want to stack other stats and play an MMORPG game. Please fix this soon.
Solution - First let us gem every slot again. 6 sockets isn’t enough to get any meaningful amount of Secondaries to make a build we want. Then add Haste/Mastery and Crit/Mastery gear to the PvP vendor so people can play the game how they want.
PS - Removed secondary DRs, you being hell bent on trying to control how we play feels bad and makes us miss BFA and that is saying something.
There were so many ways to play your character. I hate tons of gear options for different content. I had a TD set, Tent set and Mastery amp set. You could stack and achieve stat breakpoints which makes you build in BFA.
Why are you against customization? Sorry but I play an RPG (gear based game) to create certain builds that are fun. No having any options make people not want to play.
No it isn’t. This is an RPG game which means you need to have a choice to play “YOUR” character how you want. In the past we could do that. You could stack Haste, Mastery, Crit and make various builds. Now you can’t and that feels as bad as Templates did in Legion.
No matter how you want to spin this, if there isn’t a choice then there isn’t a reason to play this game.
No the majority of people dislike them. It was one of the rare situations where Ion actually said the Devs made a mistake and Templates removed too much of the RPG aspect of the game. So they removed them.
There is a vocal minority of players that liked them as it removed the gearing process in the game. People that don’t actually want to gear up for PvP. Don’t get me wrong PvP gear needs to be accessible and everyone needs to be able to attain it. However Templates removed the reason to even log in.
I quit in Legion when a PvP trinket didn’t actually work in PvP. I couldn’t gem, enchant or socket how I wanted. My Template was completely wrong for my spec so there was no reason to play the game. Many people left because of this.
There were a lot of factors on both sides like legion artifacts impacting the template, equal gearing made bad pvpers angry because they werent good anymore, equal gearing made good pvpers happy because nothing changed for them they still found success, certain classes got severely shafted because blizz templates werent always the stat prio specs actually needed in pvp (you can still see this if you party sync your max level toon into a lower bracket bg. You have no control over the secondary stats the bg gives you)
I didn’t like them, but looking back now after seeing the alternative we could have had (shadowlands) i’m more than willing to give up my spec needing crit to be successful in exchange for actual dead stat mastery that blizz insists on shoving everywhere
Hate to break it to you, but the illusion of choice has been dead since Legion. Blizzard is making obvious meta builds because offering variety is pointless when there’s a cottage industry designed to tell players what to pick and how to play their class.
Wrong Legion killed choice which is why Templates didn’t work and the Devs apologized and removed them. That is the entire reason why they tried scaling in BFA is to give players choice again.
Yea but Blizzard doesn’t create our characters. We do!! The point of playing this game is to play it “How we want”! That is literally the entire core point of an MMORPG. It’s having choice. It’s up to the players to create their own Meta and Theorycraft new ones.
When there is no choices people stop playing. SL feels so constricted with every system and as of now 9.1.5 isn’t going to fix any of it.
Except that this community doesn’t do that. At all. Unless someone else is there to tell them what to pick, players outright panic at the very notion of choice.
Covenants were a failure because of this community’s unhealthy obsession for ‘efficiency’; my time is precious when playing this game, so the game must use it wisely.
This game was poisoned long before Shadowlands and will keep suffering from its own community.
I’d argue that it was the Sim programs like Raid Bots that started the slide. At least before, you could use them as a guide to get a general idea, but the moment Blood Mallet appeared, you could just run simulation after simulation on every shred of gear for every combination of talents.
Yea but BFA was an improvement because you could gem, enchant and stat the way you want again. SL is worse than BFA in every regard from constrictive systems to not being able to play your character how you want. SL took a step back again.
Yes they do, that is why the majority of them complained about Templates. What makes an MMORPG cool is customizing your character to fit your play style. That is why MMORPGs will always be popular. You have a small group of Meta players that will never explore their character and like to be told what to do but that is the minority of players.
Most are here to have options in how they want to play the game. That is what an MMORPG is at it’s core. This won’t ever be a good game if that can’t be achieved in both PvE and PvP.
No Covenants were a failure because the “PLAYERS” told the Devs in early Alpha that they wouldn’t work. Since the players can identify parasitic bad systems that ruin the MMORPG aspect of the game.
I don’t think it is, provided the correct question is asked: “Did people hate PvP templates relative to the previous iterations of PvP gearing?” I don’t think they did, but then, it’s not like any of us have ever seen polling anywhere, so anyone claiming firmly “People hated templates” or “People loved templates” is just wishfully thinking.
Yea but Ion apologized in an interview for Templates and said they were a mistake because it removed the core RPG aspect of the game. They had overwhelming feedback from the majority of players that hated them and that is why they were removed.
This is an actual fact. It’s also rare for the Devs to admit mistakes openly but Templates was one of them.
And WoW is not what you’re describing. It is a Massive Multiplayer Online Instance Playing Game, where you choose your shallow play-style archetype and and run the gambit of scripted events and get a shiny color-coded item at the end of it.
This expansion is bad for custom builds no matter what gear is available, the diminishing returns ceiling is so ridiculously low now that basically every single DPS class’ stat priority is usually within a half point to 1 point array.
Long gone are the days of “stack mastery until there’s none left to stack” or “Haste over all” or “You need 30% crit, then start hitting Vers” now it’s “Higher iLevel is better 9 times out of 10.” With trinkets being the only meaningful choices we make.
Which is super amusing when you consider the missive system now FINALLY lets me actually craft the gear I intend instead of pumping out random stat arrays until I get the items I want.
That’s not to mention the fact that they game me a whole optional legendary crafting system then said “Oh, but not these slots, because those are going to have domination sockets and those are critical to staying at peak now”
Oh and only one or MAYBE two of those legendary options will actually be any good, the rest will be so painfully pointless as to, in some cases, actually require you to have several other people also choosing mediocre options to Voltron together into a slightly less mediocre option"
We also all know they get their feedback from private, invite-only forums, which aren’t necessarily representative of the playerbase as a whole. So the most you can says is that the “overwhelming feedback” was that those people hated templates.
We don’t actually know how most people felt, but I guess that’s a tough thing to acknowledge.
If you want to “make a build work” by using non versatility stat gear than do it, you won’t last long. There always has to be some sort of stat, stats, or set bonus to separate pvp and pve or else the go to would be m+ or raiding for gear and you could just face roll anyone in pvp without ever putting in effort to better your pvp skills. Mythic raiders would also then just be the top pvpers strictly due to the gear they acquired outside of pvp content. There has to be a divider like a specific stat or stats or even set bonuses so that doesn’t occur.
