PVP thoughts from a PVE player

Hello. I am a M+ and mythic raiding-focused player, but I also dabble in crafting, collecting, and delving. I occasionally spend a day or two to get the 1800 PVP rating mog for my class each season. But WoW’s PVP has never grabbed me. I did the mog run again this season, and I’d like to give feedback about PVP from a PVE player’s perspective.

I want to start by saying I think Solo Shuffle and Rated Battleground Blitz were great ideas. It allows players like me who just want to hop in a chance to play without having to queue in LFG, a process I could never be bothered to do for competitive PVP. They are great game modes. However, they only show how outdated the other PVP game modes are to me. I don’t understand the reasoning behind restricting rewards players would want to receive for their progress behind less popular game modes. For example, I know I am a Rival-rated player who can get my PVP mog without too much hassle but what would entice me to go further? Queuing 3s and getting crushed by the meatgrinder of decade-long Glad-ranked players? There is no chance players like me would even attempt that harsh grind, which undoubtedly contributes to the low population of WoW PVP. I think it is cool that there is something for skilled players to obtain but locking the best rewards to such a small pool of players is questionable. I think there has to be a fundamental shift in how rewards are thought of in PVP. I don’t know what that is or should be but off the top of my head, an agnostic rating cosmetic/mount reward path like a renown track would go a long way to enticing players to keep queuing or even bring back old rewards that can no longer be obtained. I do know that the current system of trying to funnel people into archaic game modes such as grouped 3s just to do a harsh rating grind is unappealing and should be retired.

Another pain point I found is gearing in PVP. The number of people I saw queuing in low-item honor gear, sometimes not even that was astounding. How is gear disparity even allowed in competitive PVP? It is absurd, that before you even start the game you are at a disadvantage based solely on if someone farmed for hours for their conquest/honor gear to be on par with the rest of the playerbase. Everyone’s gear should be scaled up to the 639-item level in PVP. It feels completely unserious that grinding item levels in a competitive game is even a thing. That alone ensures I can’t take WoW’s PVP seriously with the other great end-game modes that exist.

While doing the new Rated Battleground Blitz I found it a breath of fresh air and wholly fun. Battlegrounds are amazing and the changes they made to speed up the game in Blitz felt appropriate and modern. It brought a lot of feelings of nostalgia from when I played Vanilla as a kid. From a PVE perspective, I find the objective-based gameplay of battlegrounds to be far more appealing in a game mode than arena. My only complaint here is less about the game mode itself and more about the kits classes have access to. There is far too much CC and movement bloat in PVP for it to be enjoyable. I understand the hesitancy of changing players’ kits from PVE to PVP, but the amount of movement and CC we have access to in PVE makes PVP feel abysmal. I’m not exaggerating when I say I saw a MW monk fly across from our base with our flag to their base with the flag in 15 seconds, maybe less and capped. Granted the entire team helped him which is cool, but I just think the movement is a bit too much. Also, there is so much CC in the game. It’s not fun. CC is never fun. I am sure there is a lot of strategy and min-maxing you can do, but from a PVE player’s perspective being CCed for more than 2 seconds ever is incredibly frustrating. I just want to hit my buttons.

I also feel like I should mention the elephant in the room. Plunderstorm. Plunderstorm was amazing. It is everything WoW PVP should be. Fast, engaging, high risk high reward, low amount of CC, classless design. No gear. You just logged in and gamed. I can’t wait for it to return. I found it to be just as fun as M+ or mythic raiding. It was the most fun I have ever had with WoW PVP, and I wish I could be playing it right now. The more we go in that direction of PVP the happier I would be and would love to have PVP alongside M+ and mythic raiding.

I hope I don’t come across as negative about PVP, that is not my intention. I just want to give my perspective as a player who occasionally PVPs to get a cool mog. I have fun with PVP. Just not enough that would ever keep me going back after I have got the rewards I wanted. I did enjoy just hitting people and making some hero plays this season, so there’s that. From an outsider’s point of view, PVP seems to get good changes but it is just too little. Good steps in the right direction, but never enough to get me interested in diving deep into it.

Cheers!

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1950 is the illusion unlock. That’s extremely obtainable right after the elite set. Past that you’d look to improve to 2100 for the duelist achievement which rewards the cloak. Then of course 2400 which again is a large increase in difficulty but obtainable with improvement just like the gap from heroic->mythic raiding is. Most importantly you should pvp because you enjoy it not strictly because of rewards.

They tried templates already and it was a massive failure. Gearing in PvP is still easier than it’s ever been and enjoyable for most.

Your first point about mw, yes mw mobility is an issue and needs to be looked at. CC was nerfed quite a bit going into and during dragonflight. It’s an incredibly important aspect for PvP as a whole but especially arenas. Further removing it pushes pvp into a mindless pve meta (just do damage) which dampens skill and makes pvp extremely bland.

It actually wasn’t as nerfed as people think it was.
Yes, the durations of almost every CC was reduced in PvP, but the trinket bonus of CC duration reduction was also removed so the actual reduction in duration was significantly less than what it looked like on paper.

Unless I am losing my mind? I swear the pvp trinket set used to provide CC reduction, right?

You’re not. It was a normalization of ability durations.

Blizzard portrayed it as a reduction.

But you’re correct, with the removal of the trinket bonus, they were simply baking the durations as they were into the abilities.

All major ccs received duration nerfs and or cooldown increases as well as healers getting shorter trinket cooldowns. We could argue all day whether or not there’s too much cc it’s historically less impactful now than ever and further reducing the impact of cc would push deeper into a just do damage meta. I see why this is appealing to newer players and or people who refuse to improve but it takes away a lot of what pvp is about. Skill and trading cooldowns/stopping goes. It really boils down to a skill issue and people need to be willing to learn and improve vs just ask for the game to be further watered down.

They didn’t really though.

There was a reduction in CC duration bonus on gear at the time.

They removed that bonus and reduced the duration of the CC in the abilities, so that they were the same duration as when we had the bonus.

The system isn’t doing this though.

Every reward is available in all the other easier brackets besides gladiator mount.

As a feral, I actually feel like I have more CC available now than at any other time I’ve played the spec.

I have a stun, another stun, another stun, and another stun. And actually a 5th stun if I talented into it.
I have an aoe knockback + slow, an aoe slow + pull, a spammable aoe slow, cyclone, a root, and another root.
The only one with a cast time is cyclone. All the others are instant cast, or can be made instant cast.

It’s certainly frustrating to be stuck in an aoe CC chain. Feared, then aoe stunned, then aoe stunned again, then aoe disoriented, then aoe rooted, then aoe slowed all without a single player even targeting you.
I don’t know what the solution is, as that CC is also needed for people to keep themselves alive.

They did reduce the number of diminishing return categories awhile ago which helped. Remember when rogue’s cheap shot, kidney shot, and random proc mace stuns were all on separate DR? hah!

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OP: “I want to start by saying I think Solo Shuffle and Rated Battleground Blitz were great ideas.”
Me: they are, I especially enjoy Solo BG, 2164 rated for it currently. LFG slog is rough if you dont have a dedicated and available team to progress with often.

OP: "I don’t understand the reasoning behind restricting rewards players would want to receive for their progress behind less popular game modes.

Me: What rewards do you want that you cant get in Solo Arena and Solo BG? Do you think some rewards should be gained only from certain modes? I like the gameplay of Solo BG, I dont play it for rewards but what rewards I get I enjoy. I feel in order to justify participation in 2s and 3s, there should be some cool rewards reserved for each rated mode that are different from one another.

OP: "Another pain point I found is gearing in PVP. The number of people I saw queuing in low-item honor gear, sometimes not even that was astounding. How is gear disparity even allowed in competitive PVP? It is absurd, that before you even start the game you are at a disadvantage based solely on if someone farmed for hours …Everyone’s gear should be scaled up to the 639-item level in PVP.

Me: A full set of crafted pvp gear takes a bit of gold, honor gear is obtained in a day, bloodly token gear is available from doing world quests and warchests, conquest and crafted conquest gear is easy to obtain and conquest earning is capped weekly, so no one has a full set of current season conquest gear. Catching up and staying caught up has never been so easy. Embellishments, gems and sockets, enchants, and getting more gear every day you play until your caught up is character progression and a source of fun for people like me. I like to see numbers go up. If there was no gear progression, the only reward for your time would be rating and associated cosmetics. If someone struggled to earn rating initially, they might quit as they would not see any other character progress. Even somewhat unsuccessful days pvping can cap that weeks conquest in a day.

OP: There is far too much CC and movement bloat in PVP for it to be enjoyable.

Me: yes there is

OP: I’m not exaggerating when I say I saw a MW monk

Me: yes, MW op, BM and WW are a problem with nearly identical tools sometimes.

Correct there was in dragonflight season 1. After players were displeased with a baseline and set bonus reduction they removed the set part. Still leaving effected ccs less effective than before. Some were marginal some were not, even 1s less is impactful. They then doubled down with a massive trinket reduction for healers in DF season 3. This wasn’t a wash by any means

This is a fair point, the road from fresh 80 to the ilvl needed to get into rated play is terrible, yet at the same time, the best it has ever been.

My suggestion is to bring back unrated blitz with gear scaling and only honor rewards.

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We definitely don’t need MORE brackets separating the player base. Let’s take this for what it is people are complaining about playing the game. Gearing is incredibly easy if you don’t like it you probably don’t even like the game.

Those without 2k MMR wont be seen by many players. Those without 2500ish MMR wont be seen by me. Those with 2800MMR wont see most wow players including me in rated combat anytime soon. It is already split up.
A non-rated Solo BG experience with scaling could provide an enjoyable honor gearing experience, and a home for those with no interest in rated, to avoid the queue syncers and some of the more hard core players who would rather push rating.

Now, as far as catch up is concen, only offering honor for wins wouldnt be enough. Even Arena Skirmishes and Random BG wins grant Conquest, I suggest having the same rewards as Random BGs.

Gearing truly is easy, more of a waiting game than a grind. Conquest being capped weekly and all the pvp quests and Warcrates makes Conquest capping fast and easy. 600 Conquest in 1 day every week, if you log in every week. If you take 5 weeks off you could probably still get to the 4600 cap in 7 days, if you played a whole bunch. It is easier if you just do your 1 day push per week per character.

Yeah this has existed for decades man idk what your on about.

Completely irrelevant take made for unknown reasons. They are all still queing the same bracket, help drive mmr up and shorten que times. Oh i see your trying to brag about being duelist in bg blitz lmao. Nice

What does conquest being capped have to do with anything? Every single player is capped and in the same gear. You can fully gear from nothing in a single day if you actually want to instead of whining asking for a pointless mode and templates that already failed miserably.

I agree having less folks in low MMR games would increase wait times for those in low MMR games. I’m having fun as is.

Adding solo queue non rated bgs for those that dont want to fight queue syncers in random BGs would benefit what I suspect is a not so small group of current pvp players. Trying to get honor gear, while fast, would be more enjoyable when the enemies are not a RBG team on coms calling targets and nuking folks in 2 seconds.

I have no problem with you disagreeing. Its not for you. Chicken livers aren’t for me but I dont protest them being sold or bought.

Ah yes, the bourgeoisie alliance player telling us to just get Warcrates for free conquest.

Trying playing horde on my shard and let me know in a week how many you opened.

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I’ve been working toward my 1800 sets just fine with honor gear. My Druid is done, DH will be there in a day or two, and then I’ll move on to ret. I feel like knowing your class has a lot more impact than 10 ilvl

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I feel the biggest problem with pvp is how hard people are hitting. I can run across someone in all green pvp gear (check my gear if you want) and nuke him in 2-5 seconds in battlegrounds. Before I geared this hunter, the same thing would happen to me from hunters and warlocks. Time to kill feels short this expansion.

With gearing, I feel like we should keep gear as is but lower the damage overall in pvp or something. Slow this stuff down, I shouldn’t be able to literally nuke someone just because they’re in the honor version of my gear. But I still want a reason to grind it, it should just be an edge though were the gear to be changed instead…

Side note, unrelated… I’m tired of seeing Disc priests 8/10 times in pvp (healing on my druid in solo shuffle arena, this is literally what it feels like). This is getting ridiculous.

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If you really liked plunderstorm, go play Fortnite or any arena survival shooter/whatever that’s called. Same thing with guns.

I agree with all your other points about WoW PvP.

CC is nuts for some specs. And in multiple DR categories too.
It should be heavily toned down.

Movement is whack as all, and instant healing is completely out of control: far too abundant, far too strong.

That was over 14 years ago.

I haven’t played all seasons, but I don’t remember the trinket set ever reducing CC duration, but googling it, it did have such an effect (10%) for a while, when I wasn’t subbed.

Right back at you on mine. Always 10+ horde by the time I get to the crate, at least 2-4 if I’m 40y from the dropoff points, and at most 3 alliance.

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Man, we just can’t catch a break, can we?

Sounds like the server merging remains a mess, then.

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