I agree that pvp gearing needs way better gear progression, but if honor gear is only as good as heroic dungeons, it might as well not exists. gearing in pvp should be more fluent. A pure pvper should be able to progress from Random bg’s to building their ratings and progressing the ladder. I don’t think that will ever happen without honor gear being competitive with at least the gear coming out of like a +5, which is also relatively low difficulty.
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I mostly agree with your points except templates. They were awful in the same way the current scaling system is awful. Additionally, Pvp gear progression and customization throughout each season is fun. We don’t need to reinvent the wheel here. BC, WotLK, and Cata had great pvp models that achieved what you’re after. WTB a pvp stat, please.
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The honor / conquest system worked perfectly, you could buy your gear each week that was the best for PvP, you could pick a piece with the stats you wanted, you could gem and enchant the way you wanted for your build and also reforge for even more optimized stats in MoP (bring this back please).
Templates sound good on paper but the complete lack of meaningful gear progression really stilts PvP participation which is what we saw in Legion, it was worth a try but didn’t work out in practice.
The MoP or WoD system seems the best to me, either PvP stats to make it the best in PvP and only decent in PvE or scale PvP gear up when you engage in PvP combat like in WoD.
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I like the first option the best. Hidden scaling systems always feel weird. You develop a sense of your character in all forms of content, so the closer we can get to continuity between content the better. One could make intuitive calculations to adjust for things like resilience, but things start feeling weird when all sorts of behind-the-scenes adjustments are made.
Edit: I think this is also the reason versatility’s double stat dipping feels so weird to me. Get rid of that awful stat, please.
Hey Born, thank you for the reply. Honor gear being heroic dungeon quality gear is a good starting point. The proposed system would mean that it would scale to mythic dungeon quality gear when fighting players.
Honor gear is just that, pretty much starter gear (a little better actually, since regular dungeon loot is pretty awful.) Bear in mind too, that we don’t truly yet know how much of a power creep there will be in Shadowlands.
And secondly, in instanced play, players will use template models (for rated play) with gear adding contributing to secondary and primary stats.
But thank you for your comment. I love chatting! 
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Ya i agree, it will definitely depend on gear scaling. I was just going off the current patch, which is admittedly busted to the extreme.
Currently, this honor gear you’re suggesting would give them between 415-430 ilvl. Which is certainly better than normal dungeons. It just seems to me that it requires so much more work to get honor gear than it would to complete an emissary quest, which awards up to 445. That’s where I got my +5 idea, because i believe +5 also gives around 445-450. All things kept the same, I think that would be a pretty good middle ground for honor gear that would place it to around a relative power level to were it was during later patches in wotlk (where it was actually pretty good, but you definitely felt it when you ran into an arena player or raider. ) And the reason for having it be higher ilvl is not just for the player power, but also for the sense of progression.
Regardless, I love the idea of just queuing up for battlegrounds or pvp and feeling a sense of progression. I don’t think that’s really a thing anymore.
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It’s mostly about skill. I got to 2k with benthic gear on this priest alt mid way thru the season when people already had cloaks, corruptions etc. The gear is nice since it’s an MMORPG and it’s fun to feel OP. You’ll push rating if you’re good enough. Canceling the system because a few PvE’er rekt you isn’t a good thing.
I think your missing the point. A huge point in the PvP community was to get the PvP gear that was good gear for PvP. The second they removed PvP gear the community fractured. Bringing back PvP vendors but having trash gear in no way solves the problem because your still forced into PvE to get the actual gear.
Not only does this make PvEers completely OP in PvP because they get the best gear by far, it ruins the competetive nature of matchmade PvP. Nobody cares about winning anymore. What do you get for winning? Nothing. Why did people care before? Winning gave you gear that when you got a full set you got pretty strong in BGs. Giving out crappy dungeon grade gear, does nothing because the reward of that gear isn’t enough to justify playing the content or playing to win which is equally important in a PvP based mode.
The old PvP gear scaled to raid quality when in a PvP instance, and the conquest gear scaled to what is now mythic raid quality when in a PvP instance. It was bad in PvE and great in PvP. Why bother trying to win in BGs or Skirmishes for gear when you can just got spam low keys and dominate anyone not in full conquest gear.
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My translation of your wall of text:
“Waaaaa, I can’t spend all my time playing anymore. I am falling behind people who can spend all day playing. I have a life, I deserve to have the same stuff without putting in the same amount of effort because I’m adulting now!”
If you want to play a game like League of Legends, go play it. WoW is, sadly, unlikely to adopt that style of play for it’s PvP, nor do any drastic changes of their current systems. (They refuse to take a page from Guild Wars(2), so why on earth do you think they’d do something that would let people jump in and out on a whim?)
The idea is to reward players who invest time and effort into the game. If you don’t think it’s fair because “I have a life”, then perhaps you still have some growing up left to do.
I mean seriously? How grown up are you if you feel this entitled over digital fairness without putting in an equal amount of work and effort?
I agree let’s not make PvP about gear and instead let’s get all those old elite PvP transmogs brought back in a vendor and remove the rating requirements so we can all enjoy them and make PvP skill based.
I really hope this is sarcasm
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Whaaaa nooo everything I say on the forums is 100% definately my actual opinion on topics.
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You never know these days, there’s definitely people who have that mind set. See OP above who doesn’t have enough time to play WoW so he should be allowed to circumvent the rest of the game apparently because of it.
totally agree, but im not gonna lie, i also miss the casual pvp when i was full pvp gear vs low to no pvp gear players.
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When was pvp ideal for you?
The way it is right now where both skill and gear matter is pretty nice.
Absolutely agree that it should be about skill and not gear. PVP is player-vs-player not player versus gear LOL
everyone should have an equal standing so that it is skill alone that determines the winner not gear or any other aspect of this game. but because we’re all playing different classes and blizzard has favorite classes that it gives better Krupp to this is always going to be a problem in this particular game
This is why I no longer PVP in world of Warcraft. If I want to PVP I’ll go play something else where skill is the deciding factor not how long I grind out my gear LOL
Agreed 100%.
“gear affects pvp success and i don’t have time to grind anymore and I don’t like it”
I’m not sure you’re delivering a point given how much rambling you did. More of a rounded corner.
This is a game driven by the gear treadmill and your character’s power is defined by its gear. Someone who has ran on that treadmill longer than you is going to have an advantage.
Don’t like it. Do something else. Go have fun in LoL.
This is actually something I would love. I started playing WoW back in Legion and I oved that brief period where everyone was scaled in PvP. Actually made me want to queue for some battlegrounds and stuff. It also made it really alt friendly!
If they scale everyone again I might consider playing it again 
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