Please give this a look:
And let us know your thoughts here!
7 Likes
Herald of the Sun looks interesting, and Iād be curious to see how it works out in practice for a Holy Paladin that wants to be in melee range. The fact I donāt see many talents pushing the use of FoL or HL and instead a lot of usage of the Spenders is pleasing to see.
4 Likes
Eternal Flame is amazing, 10/10 please keep.
Rest of the tree feels like it lacks an emphasis on enhancing the overall classā ascendence into a āHero Tree.ā Again, improved Seals, Auras, Blessings, etcā¦ should be more common in the side talents so the system feels more like fantasy/flavor than stacking modifiers on modifiers.
Hopefully more is instore for the Paladin trees in TWW, but coming from our unknown perspective, both the Templar and Herald trees leave little to be desired in that class fantasy department. They revolve heavily around a few abilities and donāt expand themselves to the class.
Iād be much more interested in seeing Blizzardās talent trees if some of the modifiers were reduced and more of the side talents got focused on improving the classes with unique flavor.
4 Likes
Early thoughts are that I really like the idea of playing off of Prism and improving Shield of the Righteous and Light of Dawn, as well as Word of Glory improvement. Really elevates the whole kit. Excited to see how it plays. So far so good!!
Further thoughts:
One thing that I would like to get some clarity on, is the prioritization of the Light of Dawn āspotsā being put out. Does it effect allies first and then if any enemies are āleft overā it then effects them? Or is it purely RNG as to who gets what sunspot? If you are going to have us manage a whole new layer of complexity on top of Glimmers to manage, it would be good to know that the sunspots arenāt wasted.
3 Likes
The team knocked Herald of the Sun out of the park. I am pleasantly surprised by what I am seeing!
- Eternal Flame is nice to see returning
- Illiumine rocks for PvP
- Aurora sounds incredibly fun to press
- Sunās Avatar also sounds incredibly fun, especially visually
Currently, I much prefer Herald compared to Templar. Looks great so far already in this early stage!
4 Likes
Same post here: For what particular reason are Templar and Herald for Ret both centered around Wake the Ashes? That feels rather restrictive, esp. in talent selection.
5 Likes
Excited to see enemies and allies running around as balls of righteous fire tethered to me
3 Likes
This is the first healer tree that I thought looked REALLY good at first glance. I have only one gripe/question. Does Eternal Flame have the same instant heal that Word of Glory would? Since we donāt know, Iām going to split my feedback. Also, this is purely from a healer/holy standpoint.
If it does heal instantly for the same as Word of Glory, then this is easily my favorite tree so far. It buffs all 3 of your spenders by quite a bit, which is going to be a great change of pace coming from this seasonā¦ And itās just free, easy damage and healing that will most likely look really cool and fiery. What else could you ask for?
If Eternal Flame heals for LESS than Word of Glory would instantly, then this tree is kinda dead for m+(and pvp I imagine) since WoG is your main heal spender in that content and losing it for a HoT isnāt good. I would very much keep this in mind because when I look at mine and otherās healing breakdown in keys, losing WoGās instant healing is absolutely no good.
2 Likes
WITH TUNING this could be a decent choice for hpal. However, as is, this will be the 2nd holy hero talent spec Iām going to be disappointed by. Holy Prism does not feel good to press, so making it the activator makes me sad. Making the main thing it does is to interact with holy power abilities is just a kick in the nuts. Hpower really needs tuning; have the hpal designers not seen any recent video covering how we are to ignore holy power spenders because theyāre so bad? The immediate feeling I get when reading this very first node is that I want to cry.
Sunspot ā how does it work with Light of Dawn? Do all 5 targets get a sunspot? Does it randomly choose 1? Is it smart and chooses the lowest hp person it heals, or can it also go on someone at full hp?
Eternal Flame ā healing + places a hot on a target for 20s. If we recast on this same target, does the hot get overwritten? Word of glory is one of the spells we use (if it actually did any healing) to single target heal. If someone is low, I will want to cast it on them multiple times within 20s in order to heal them up. This seems to punish that. Also, now I need to keep track of glimmers, as well as Eternal Flames so I donāt overwrite either thing? Thatās an āUghā feeling right there.
Gleaming Rays ā increasing nothing by 10% is still nothing. Again, make hpower spenders actually do healing and this might be good.
Aurora ā Divine purpose is a free cast of a holy power spender. Again, our spenders do insignificant healing. Make them do more, and maybe we can be excited about this (starting to notice a theme here?).
Sunās Avatar ā Iām a little worried about this. Am I popping it, then running in circles trying to clothesline my friends so it heals them? This feels like itās going to be clunky and may need a redesign? I like the idea of it, but maybe instead of making us clothesline our friends, make the sunspots pulse healing around them? I can imagine some visualizations where we pulse light and it shoots out to our sunspots and they pulse healing around them (think that episode of stargate SG1 where Jack gets impaled in the gate room and Tealāc shoots the orb thing with his staff and it pulses out through Jackā¦hopefully we have some stargate fans out there lol).
I really hope Iām wrong and that spenders next xpac will feel better to cast because this could be a decent choice if so. Also donāt get me wrong; this post is mostly things Iām complaining about or think could be good with minimal changes; for the most part a lot of the nodes look great.
2 Likes
Both of the trees seem interesting and i cant wait to actually get hands on with them in the future, however I would like to see some clarification on how the sunspot functions, how it picks targets, and how overlapping applications function.
If for Ret it picks primary target, are multiple applications to pandemic? or simply be overwritten? If they are going to be overwritten this has some annoying gameplay implications where you are constantly swapping targets to make sure you are overwriting buffs, especially those buffed by Morning Star.
If the target swapping is intended id like to see some additional benefits rolled into having multiple targets impacted or its going to feel like a really annoying chore for a small portion of damage, and Retās priority damage is already an issue without having to manage multi-dot upkeep.
Maybe allies can stack in the lines instead of the burden being on you to move. No different than other externals like link or dome.
1 Like
I wish it played more into melee healing.
2 Likes
this feedback post will be mostly holy oriented. i will label as needed. also keep in mind there isnt much to say in terms of feedback regarding herald of the sun, its a pretty good tree.
as stated above, the tree is very well made and its hard to have feedbac kfor it without knowing the full picture and that includes potential talent changes or tuning changes. this tree does imply holy will see some talent changes this also implies ret will see some talent changes but until then there isnt much to say.
i want to highlight even further that this tree is very good and hits points in nostalgia with the return of
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eternal flame! i figured this will be a good place to start if any. this once again relies on number tuning. since dragonflight saw that spenders for holy were extremely undertune without multiple layers making it just barely worht pressing. if overal spenders are buffed and the talents that buff then are nerfed. this will feel tons better
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gleaming rays only adds on to this problem, but again these are very nitpicky things that rely on future tuning.
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luminosity, for ret: seems extremely pointless since we have vengeful wrath that already makes hammer of wrath a 100% crit ability. unless vengeful wrath is changed then there is no point to pick this. unless its changed to increase crit damage for how
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morning star could stand to stack faster. since holy damage is based on summer. it would be nice to have something for holy that deals damage instead of slowly ramps
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Lliumine can be fixed by removing sanguine
theres really not much to say about this in regards to holy, this tree is very well made. good work blizzard!
for ret my only feed back is put all the hammero f wrath stuff to boj or fv since alot of these seems redundant.
i only hope that all future feedback is met with smart conversation instead of devolving to āthe names of thingsā like the lightsmith thread did
95% of my time in WoW is spent playing Holy Paladin, so my response to this hero class is entirely from that perspective:
Iām in love with it! Shadowlands trained me to try and maximize my healer DPS, and whatever else you say about that expansion, I think thatās a good thing that only enriched the healer role. It feels like that was dialed way back in dragonflight, to my regret, and Iāve beem trying to claw my way back to moderate dps ever since.
It feels like Herald is giving Holy specifically a lot of multi-use tools that can be used for offense or defense, without burdening us with tons of extra buttons. This is great, and gives us choice to seesaw back and forth between roles as the situation dictates. I donāt know how Ret mains feel about it, but itās exactly the sort of freedom and functionality Iāve wanted as Holy
5 Likes
Increase the proc chance of searing light a bit more and herald could be the best visual melee spec ever
2 Likes
Iām amazed that this looks good on paper compared to Lightsmith. The passives (with some tuning) essentially addresses a lot of the complaints players have about the spec.
- Spenders are now meaningful, as they spread sunspots.
- Sunspots are versatile for both DPS and healing.
- The passives are designed in a way that works for both casting and melee builds (minus DPSing, as our only spender is melee range).
The combination of wings + holy prism + 2x light of dawns to spread sunspots (if it works that way) PLUS glimmer with daybreak is incredibly powerful. Not to mention sunspots pulse AoE healing (or damage) so depending on the tuning it can just be absurd during avenging wrath.
IMO I like the trade-off of swapping direct heals for HoTs. Itās fine by me if both hero talents play in different ways with different strengths.
Tuning is going to matter a lot. The whole spec relies on sunspots being tuned correctly. If sunspots do too little, it might as well be like our tier set for Amirdrassil. If they do too much, itāll be absurdly broken in combination with glimmer.
3 Likes
oh one thing! its weird that sunspots only work with prism. will there be a way to make it also work with lights hammer? as a potential aoe options???
2 Likes
EF returns!
4 Likes
Interaction with AC? Generates a Sunspot? Sunās Avatar 1 min cooldown?
1 Like
While I love the thematics of Herald of the Sun, something about it seemed off to me mechanically as I looked at it. Then, it struck me: as far as Retribution is concerned, itās almost exactly identical to Templar.
On the most basic level, both are cast Wake of Ashes ā procs Hero Talent effect for damage and some secondary effects. Obviously thatās a gross simplication and they should be more similar than different, compare it to other hero talent trees. They generally have built in interactions with the rest of their kit, dynamic effects. The one which comes to mind as a comparison is the central keystone proc of Diabolist. While it also is centered around a āUse X ability to trigger primary effectā, it also happens more frequently based on your soul shards spent. This is good! And, honestly, seems terribly strange that Herald has no way to reduce Wakeās cooldown.
The most obvious solution is give Herald some way to reduce Wakeās cooldown. For example, radiant damage has an X% chance (Which also incentivizes going down the currently very weak right side of the capstone tree set in the spec tree). Or even as straightforward as āWakeās cooldown is reduced by 1 second per holy power spentā. Herald (And Ret as a whole, but thatās a larger issue), as it is now, is terribly static; it needs something dynamic, some kind of interactivity. Otherwise, it boils down to āTwo times a minute I can do a cool thingā with no meaningful interaction from the player.