Luckily, we don’t live in a democracy where if people don’t like PvP, they can’t vote to rid of it. Its not going to go anywhere.
But it certainly continues to be a huge meme. And one of the ways to fix that meme is addressing CC and steamroll classes. Remember when DH first came out? That was a huge problem. Remember World of Roguecraft? That was also a huge problem. While the counter argument to be had is, “there will always exist a meta”, players have deliberately let the power go to their heads thinking they’re good.
When in reality, they’re taking their precious season time sucking on that pacifier.
Then, yes. We have a toxicity problem. They both exist in the pillars of PvE and PvP, so you can’t expect sympathy (at least, from me), when a whole bunch of jerk wads run rampant across the board.
Also…
My belief on the whole CC page is that it was a PR stunt. There was legitimate CC members who crafted a well-thought out criticism take. The result? I believe he got removed from the CC.
Like… the dude got banned from CC. The whole PR stunt couldn’t make itself into any further of a meme.
Regarding one of your categories, “More Players - Understanding Why Players Left to Begin With”, you forgot about queue times. Queue times can be a bane to any player and, if paired with poor match quality, will result them to play a different game altogether.
Good afternoon. Those are some pretty solid gearing suggestions, because it’s an MMO some people take issues with immediate gear scaling but I think making it kind of a scaling starter set like you suggested is fair. This late in a season it doesn’t really serve to have so many people running around in Greens. Back in Legion with the Principals of War buff there were mixed opinions about everyone being on level ground but I felt the only issue with it was favoring certain specs (stat priority wise) better than others. The account bound conquest idea is a new one, comes with some complications but for penalizing purposes that could work.
Exactly, which is why once in a blue moon a pug will pull out a win over a premade, but they need a very competent leader, which is hard to come by in pugs. In pug V pug especially when I’m leading if we clearly lose every team fight due to gearing and skill and whatever else I can still coordinate the team to out rotate the enemy on bases, or in Ashran pull out a timely play like kill the frag guy and grab SS and ninja the mage, but games like that are the exception.
This does happen in pugVpug games but the fight often times isn’t as one sided as it is against a premade so the impact of losing team mates and waiting to fill isn’t as bad and typically less of them leave and you can still turn the game around with a reasonable chance. Unfortunately in a blow out opener against a premade you get the maximum impact nearly every single time and due to the strength and coordination of the premade it seals the coffin.
This is sometimes done on purpose to create an advantage usually only when the premade group is small but most premade communities don’t really do that, but as you stated the cowardice of some communities causes casualties of war.
I would have to disagree on this one point that they would never get better at the game, but I do agree that playing against premades for some players like myself can make you better at the game (mainly through learning strats) but for a lot of players it simply disincentivizes them from queing. Like you said “When the game is healthy the level of pugVpremade goes down” which is why up till now it hasn’t become an issue worth tackling, but at the moment the game is not particularly health, sure it’s not dead but from a pug perspective it’s in shambles, Premades are not the worst problem plaguing pvp but they are stepping on the hand of a wounded man so to speak.
I would never dream of eliminating premades all together, I’m part of multiple premade communities, I’ve been playing with them on and off for a long time on both factions and coming together like that and coordinating is the true spirit of the game, but not at the expense of the the health of pvp in general or at the expense of other players time. Which is why I proposed this >>> Located in the Complications and Possible Solutions To the Premade Issue, tab, only accessible the very bottom of the "Elimination of Premade Grups Flooding Casual BGs and Epic BGs tab.
I’m not really sure why y’all seem to want Non-PvPers to chime in on PvP issues so badly. Non PvPers play almost an entirely different game from y’all.
I haven’t been active in PvP since farming saddles in DF S1, and I don’t even feel qualified to chime in on the state of things because I haven’t participated in it in a while.
Well I mainly wanted them to help their brothers (us) by contributing to the thread to hopefully get these issues addressed, which you have done ty, and answer this question
Since the goal of everyone should be making PvP more accessible and palatable without compromising what it is, so it can grow and heal.
There once was a time where I was a dedicated frost mage and I was domm’ing arenas. Then I switched to fire and had an even better time because of DoT mechanics.
Since frost mages were nerfed to the ground and there were more instances of other classes playing EZ MODE (looking at you, hunters…), I’ve placed PvP on a huge hiatus.
That hiatus exists today. You will only find me playing PvP if I play healer. On a blue moon.
NGL, when I went healer in PvP, it was actually fun. But in the current condition of things, it makes it into a chore. Not a fan of a game feeling like a chore.
Well some of these tabs are pretty long but the issues run deep yet so many would be so easy to fix and largely only exist due to a neglect of the most basic maintenance needs.
I personally think that the community is one of the biggest barriers of entry for PvP, unfortunately. I found it almost impossible to get into PvP until I had a friend who was already really experienced with it queue up with me and teach me.
That took a lot of time and a lot of patience on his part, and that isn’t something that the average random is going to get from a relative stranger in the group finder.
Most of the time you queue in or sign up for a group, get flamed/told that you suck, and… No one learns from that.
There are a lot of barriers to entry and I personally felt like I had to rely on a LOT of addons when I was doing Arenas to make the UI functional and useful.
PvP is a very social mode of play that unfortunately… Also really enables a lot of antisocial/negative behaviour patterns.
I don’t think Blizz can fix that.
My friends who PvP have moved on to other games, so I’ve just stopped PvPing altogether because pugging is such a miserable experience.
Not trying to rain on your parade, but perhaps you might be interested to know my experience, at least.
If the Community Council ignore this concise feedback then it would be genuinely shameful.
It would potentially expose a bias in presenting certain issues to Blizz and not others, with intent of only improving things in individual Community Council members interests as opposed to actually representing the community.
Thank you for sharing your testimony. I’ve found from 19yrs of PvP that there exists several communities mostly isolated from one another, and then everyone else (the Silent Majority) if you will. Who que up for random BGs and Epic BGs and talk to no one and do their thing, it can be hard and slow to learn this way but that’s why some of us have been encouraging Blizz to put together a basic ingame guide, perhaps even with a tutorial to teach players about CC chains and managing cooldowns and mobility to give them the basics.
Truth is like your friends who left the pvp community is getting smaller and smaller and if we don’t fix the issues in the game then remove barriers of entry it won’t recover.
You’ve inspired me to add another tab related to the creation of some kind of ingame written guide and possibly a tutorial. Thanks.
Thank you very much for contributing to the conversation, I feel the same way, even if you’re a CC Member who doesn’t PvP we need you.
That’s a reference to a thread that I’ve made several times in the PTR…
We got a reward system like the Prestige PvP rewards:
However, It was introduced on Legion and forgotten after BFA prepatch.
Overall, a good idea to do a Megathread, however; I’m going to be negative because CC forums are ignored to the point of CC members to create threads questioning if they’re being heard and Devs / CMs only like to discuss new content instead of checking the huge amount of feedback regarding the actual state of the game.
I don’t even know if there’s a good pvp dev that represents that area anymore.
We’ve 3 years of Council forums and plenty of pvp feedback there ignored…so I don’t have hope for big changes from Blizzard.
Members there won’t ignore it…Blues in the other hand. As I mentioned, you just need to tag some of them and they’ll help with CC threads, that’s how I got my PvP reward feedback in their forums thanks to Cyrios
Hey, thank you for linking that, I like that system, it really could use a breath of new life. My goal is to unify about 10 CC members if possible. I linked like 10 of their CC forums on my last post and got 1 response so I wanted to give that a little breathing room. I’ll probably link these members again tonight or tomorrow morning. I don’t want this thread to go away so if you’re passionate about getting PvP off life support and back on its feet I’d appreciate it if you and anyone else reading this dropped by once in a while and left a short comment to keep it alive. Thanks for contributing I’ll edit in a segment about the honor prestige system.
Thanks that’s a brilliant idea, I’m considering applying myself but with the state of PvP being as it has been for song long and not finding the themes and story of this xpac as gripping if we don’t start seeing some changes I’m considering pulling away. I wouldn’t want to apply for a council I have no intention of participating in. But maaaaaan does someone seriously need to start contending for PvP because holy smokes.
The PvP system in WoW was set to fail years ago and now we are seeing the results.
All current PvP game modes revolve around ranked modes. These are largely inaccessible for new players, and the moment-to-moment gameplay is terrible. I’m thinking here of all the aspects involved: from forming an arena team, getting an rBG premade, or sitting in a 40 min shuffle queue, to facing very experienced carries and gladiators playing their alts at lower rankings in arena, bots in shuffle, and well behaved players in rBGs.
Casual PvP modes, which would be the natural place to encourage new and casual players to make the jump for ranked have been all abandoned. They are all rewardless chores that only make sense in the context of gearing up for ranked.
The game has no way of onboarding new players to ranked modes, and it has become obvious that more players are leaving the game mode than joining.
The problem is that fixing this path is almost impossible. There is almost no reward the game could offer to entice the demographic that currently plays this game (a broad range of younger adults, adult teenagers, and regular adults) to spend the time required to enjoy ranked modes of PvP. The amount of complexity and learning they have to go through is simply not worth almost anyone’s time.
Who would go through all that in 2024 when the only thing they might possibly find at the end of the tunnel is a PvE tier reskin, a title, and a mount every season?