wat. lol fr what are youtalkin about
1 Like
Hey, this post exists on the General Discussions page and PvP Forums page, I put that first leaflet in to address PvE players and anyone who might be generally pessimistic about PvP. I’ve noticed that on nearly every PvP related thread that wasn’t posted last night they get driven off topic and buried under PvP sucks and should just die already…mini game…etc. etc. by a bunhc of people who don’t actually play it and have nbo interest in it. So I threw that together to humbly ask for constructive commentary only and understanding. Thank you for helping to keep the discussion alive.
Thanks guys! Much love!
1 Like
I wouldn’t call these the primary problems as they don’t strike at the heart of what is making PvP unpopular. It is neither fun enough to maintain a healthy playerbase nor skill-expressive enough to bring in new competitive players.
That stems from the about-face class design took in WoD and Legion, and perpetuating to this day. Going from the peak of independence in MoP to being stripped of many capabilities. In PvP it’s simply more fun and skillful to be self-reliant.
Where is the skill? The high points of WoW PvP involve reading your opponents and outplaying them. Situations that can be outplayed or abilities that create outplays are too few, and most of those abilities are locked behind the unnecessary PvP talent system. Often times they compete with less niche talents.
Damage dealing is mind-numbingly simple. Maintenance buffs and debuffs are either gone, unnecessary, or trivially upkept. Resource management isn’t a thing, pressing your CDs floods you with any resource you need. Executing your rotation or burst is seemingly impossible to screw up severely assuming you aren’t brand new. Someone can pick up a spec they’ve never played and have the same level of mastery in two weeks as a ten year main.
3 Likes
You could say the same for pretty much every facet of this game but PvP is by in large the most skill demanding pillar of the game, there is nothing in this game more challenging than playing Rated Arena or RBGs at the highest level, but I agree with what you also said that the class design that perpetuates to this day makes that kind of gameplay un fun and makes it hard for WoW to compete with other PvP oriented games. It stops feeling like WoW, I’m content with hovering around 2k and never climbing any higher because of how many addons, and how much communication and CD swap oriented the game play is it just isn’t for me, which is why I’ve always preferred like you said a more self reliant style which can be found in Wpvp.
I will certainly agree however that as long as a couple classes dominate “The Meta” which there always seems to be, new players who aren’t one of 5 classes will be too discouraged to play. It’s worth mentioning that one of the largest barriers of entry sited by PVE players and new players is how high skill most of the community is by comparison. but like you said below here
Some people can do that, and other just can’t seem to manage it. And tbh I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that we want PvP to be accessible otherwise it’ll whittle down to nothing, but classes should have a high skill ceiling.
Totally agree, even for healers there is scarcely ever a threat in lower brackets at least or in Wpvp where managing resources is a concern until you get to higher rated competitive play where most games carry into Out of Mana stages.
For DPS classes resource management should absolutely be a thing but is really not an issue for any class.
Blizzard really should sit down and take a long look at class design philosophy across the board especially through a PvP oriented lens.
More players will help with many of the problems PvP is suffering from, I think a big part of what will bring players back to the game as a whole and into PvP is addressing the issues with the fundamentals outlined here in this leaflet tab close to the bottom of my post.
3 Likes
bump so devs will see
3 Likes
Thank you! a Community Council member has just taken up our cause and posted a link to this Forum in his CC Forum post, please head over there and show him some love if you’re reading this!
2 Likes
There is a good chance I won’t be on the CC after the 15th, so if you have anything else you wish to have on there, let me know.
5 Likes
Cyrios, I can’t thank you enough for your effort. The way I see it every PvP post that ends up on the CC Forums receives no support or feedback from other CC Members and is dead on arrival. Would you be willing to help us by convincing a few more CC members to get on board with this along side you? If we can’t get the CC to team up for this nothing will be done for Retail PvP and it’ll continue to fall apart. I made this post here
Community Council Rallying Cry
Trying to bring the CC together. If there’s anything further you can do we would be in your debt.
1 Like
I agree with this, I’ve been submitting bug reports for Phoenix Flames since 10.0; Phoenix Flames, when cast at a totem or minion (e.g. grounding totem, static field totem, cap totem, psyfiend, observer, etc.) consumes a charge, shows the animation of the blast hitting the target, but does ZERO damage to the minion/totem. Extremely frustrating interaction that is clearly a bug existing for far too long now.
3 Likes
yepyepyepyep you know what its mage brain, welcome aboard.
1 Like
Noted! I’m considering putting together a separate thread to discuss all PvP related bugs, it’ll just take some time.
Did ya notice a second CC Member commented on Cyrios post? The Fire is Rising!
I did not! also make that thread here, about the cc post plz just to get more attention either seperate thread entirely or throw it up top with your op
I did it’s like 7 comments up from yours his post is titled “The State of PvP”
1 Like
OH ok cool cool yea i was lookin for same title as in general discussion ty
1 Like
question there are people in cc that are pvp focused? no?
just posting this thread here so it gets attention don’t mind it
we need to get this out there in all the forums. something has to be done 
2 Likes
id advise you go to general discussion and repost exact what you did here.
also same as my last post just a thread so it gets attention dont mind it.
good idea to help other healers actually get into rbgs, many wont q without a mw because revival is just so glaringly better than entire classes toolkits. onlything that competes is grounding and not many take rshams so this change will also benefit them in getting picked up more.
like he says in post sounds like an easy fix. so do it.
axtin legend shouldve been put here long ago
okie i take break lol ill be back later. good stuff guys
2 Likes
were back in black
2 Likes
On another note, I’m cautiously optimistic about the next expansion, I’m hoping as they develop this new battle ground that they announced they’re going to take a look around and go, oh the house is on fire what have we done to PvP? Then they’ll realize oh we have to buff the NPCs in the Epic BGs, wait have we seriously gone this long without buffing them? What else did we miss? I don’t think they’ll make any actually make any real changes unfortunately but this copium sure is strong.
3 Likes