Give up and hope Riot’s game which will have arena PVP destroys WOW. Riot has smashed Blizzard in every other game I think WOW’s next.
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nah no thanks, unless its an mmorpg thats capable of making a jump not look completely dumb and not be able to strafe its never goin to be a better one so idk they cant just do the simple things that make wow great and translate it
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like it’s not like this is my first and only game or something but it’s an entirely different beast like it must be tamed. and no one can do that but the players that play it day in and day out but ok I’m going to take a break. loved the convo though but I don’t like where you’re coming from personally.
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Visibility bump 
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visibly fist bump you
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/Tenchar
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this entire thread is the same person
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its not nerd. but thanks for the bump, can check pvp me and see all my toons, my wow 1 is suspended till next year and wont find any toons here but my 2 rog’s and mysham prveks. cringelord.
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Enh needs more buffs than just 25% healing surge.
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Not trying to contradict what you’re doing, as it genuinely does not affect me that I know of but why are you addressing us PVE only players again? Must’ve missed that point somehow. I mean, y’all wanna pound on each other more power to you, seriously, just leave me out of it.
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LOL no its not me xd jesusssss
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wat. lol fr what are youtalkin about
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Hey, this post exists on the General Discussions page and PvP Forums page, I put that first leaflet in to address PvE players and anyone who might be generally pessimistic about PvP. I’ve noticed that on nearly every PvP related thread that wasn’t posted last night they get driven off topic and buried under PvP sucks and should just die already…mini game…etc. etc. by a bunhc of people who don’t actually play it and have nbo interest in it. So I threw that together to humbly ask for constructive commentary only and understanding. Thank you for helping to keep the discussion alive.
Thanks guys! Much love!
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I wouldn’t call these the primary problems as they don’t strike at the heart of what is making PvP unpopular. It is neither fun enough to maintain a healthy playerbase nor skill-expressive enough to bring in new competitive players.
That stems from the about-face class design took in WoD and Legion, and perpetuating to this day. Going from the peak of independence in MoP to being stripped of many capabilities. In PvP it’s simply more fun and skillful to be self-reliant.
Where is the skill? The high points of WoW PvP involve reading your opponents and outplaying them. Situations that can be outplayed or abilities that create outplays are too few, and most of those abilities are locked behind the unnecessary PvP talent system. Often times they compete with less niche talents.
Damage dealing is mind-numbingly simple. Maintenance buffs and debuffs are either gone, unnecessary, or trivially upkept. Resource management isn’t a thing, pressing your CDs floods you with any resource you need. Executing your rotation or burst is seemingly impossible to screw up severely assuming you aren’t brand new. Someone can pick up a spec they’ve never played and have the same level of mastery in two weeks as a ten year main.
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You could say the same for pretty much every facet of this game but PvP is by in large the most skill demanding pillar of the game, there is nothing in this game more challenging than playing Rated Arena or RBGs at the highest level, but I agree with what you also said that the class design that perpetuates to this day makes that kind of gameplay un fun and makes it hard for WoW to compete with other PvP oriented games. It stops feeling like WoW, I’m content with hovering around 2k and never climbing any higher because of how many addons, and how much communication and CD swap oriented the game play is it just isn’t for me, which is why I’ve always preferred like you said a more self reliant style which can be found in Wpvp.
I will certainly agree however that as long as a couple classes dominate “The Meta” which there always seems to be, new players who aren’t one of 5 classes will be too discouraged to play. It’s worth mentioning that one of the largest barriers of entry sited by PVE players and new players is how high skill most of the community is by comparison. but like you said below here
Some people can do that, and other just can’t seem to manage it. And tbh I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that we want PvP to be accessible otherwise it’ll whittle down to nothing, but classes should have a high skill ceiling.
Totally agree, even for healers there is scarcely ever a threat in lower brackets at least or in Wpvp where managing resources is a concern until you get to higher rated competitive play where most games carry into Out of Mana stages.
For DPS classes resource management should absolutely be a thing but is really not an issue for any class.
Blizzard really should sit down and take a long look at class design philosophy across the board especially through a PvP oriented lens.
More players will help with many of the problems PvP is suffering from, I think a big part of what will bring players back to the game as a whole and into PvP is addressing the issues with the fundamentals outlined here in this leaflet tab close to the bottom of my post.
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bump so devs will see
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Thank you! a Community Council member has just taken up our cause and posted a link to this Forum in his CC Forum post, please head over there and show him some love if you’re reading this!
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There is a good chance I won’t be on the CC after the 15th, so if you have anything else you wish to have on there, let me know.
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Cyrios, I can’t thank you enough for your effort. The way I see it every PvP post that ends up on the CC Forums receives no support or feedback from other CC Members and is dead on arrival. Would you be willing to help us by convincing a few more CC members to get on board with this along side you? If we can’t get the CC to team up for this nothing will be done for Retail PvP and it’ll continue to fall apart. I made this post here
Community Council Rallying Cry
Trying to bring the CC together. If there’s anything further you can do we would be in your debt.
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I agree with this, I’ve been submitting bug reports for Phoenix Flames since 10.0; Phoenix Flames, when cast at a totem or minion (e.g. grounding totem, static field totem, cap totem, psyfiend, observer, etc.) consumes a charge, shows the animation of the blast hitting the target, but does ZERO damage to the minion/totem. Extremely frustrating interaction that is clearly a bug existing for far too long now.
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