there are a couple things that have broken classic pvp. i feel its a combination of the player base and the vastly out numbered players that grind pvp for horde vs alliance. i say player base because literally the mentality of alliance anymore is just plain toxic beyond belief. countless times ive been in pugs where legit 3-4 people in ab just stand afk at stables doing nothing. and this when we are AGAINST a rare pug. in WSG same thing, if they can’t beat back horde on the initial push half of them just go afk. NOONE listens to directions, and if someone TRIES to make call outs they just get flamed the entire match. I never remebered bgs being THIS toxic in classic. it has become a cesspool for people that have zero want or desire to actually try and do anything other than flame one another. yes horde have better racials…they did back in vanilla too, yes av map is screwed for them, but we always fought equal on both sides. u could actually WIN some. now its jsut one beatdown after another. its has got so bad, now horde literally have to premade dam near every match ive been in this week just get a edge on their own grind. i cant imagine what its like now on horde to grind up honor when literally the only chance u have to compete is gy farm alliance for 8-10hrs a day. its jsut not worth anymore on BOTH sides. again, i say it cuts both ways, if you are alliance then the toxic player base needs to change, if your horde i feel your pain as well becuz there is no REAL pvp anymore in bgs…jsut another premade grind
I understand all the complaints completely.
I feel like I’m resigned to the fact that this is just how it’s going to be in classic as long as the honor gear is BIS for the most played classes (dps warriors especially).
But I do think there’s some hope that as we get to AQ that it will significantly lessen the amount of premades running.
Right now, the weapons and some of the PVP pieces are just flat out BIS for a variety of uses (PVP and PVE) with little alternative for many classes. That will change as AQ comes out given how strongly itemized AQ gear is.
There will still be some people that grind for the PVP gear, but there will be significantly less of a point.
At that point, maybe we see people just playing the BGs more for fun than as a grind.
As far as AV goes, there needs to be some changes to the map to at least incentivize alliance to play. The simplest change is to just make respawn locations the nearest controlled GY and not include the cave until there’s no controlled GYs on the map.
But yeah, I’m nearly done with my grind, hoping to hit R12 and call it a day. It’s just been brutal to be honest given that everything is min-maxed to the point where you have to either play an ungodly amount of time if you want to pug it or join a premade and graveyard camp teams on the other side.
There’s just no value there right now, but I hope that as we move into later phases of classic that some returns.
Horde deals with a lot of the same stuff when pugging. AV being an auto-win for horde probably helps with morale etc though. As for the toxic chat it’s the same horde side with name-calling and blaming other horde being common whenever losing. Horde are always happy when running into an alliance PUG and will generally try pretty hard. However, 70% or so of horde pug players are all about getting as many killing blows/HKs as possible and that’s it. Therefore defense is rare and working together doesn’t always happen. We have AFKs and bots too. So yes horde pugging is frustrating too. I far preferred running with premades.
As for horde premading I spent my last 3 weeks getting from rank 13 to 14 playing 20+ hour days for 6 days and either sitting in queues or playing actively in battlegrounds. I’d get to sleep Monday. About 80% of that time was in premades and the rest in pugs. Yes, we graveyard camped and we did things like mind visioning to make sure we took every scrap of honor we could get from a battleground before ending it. We would not cap stables until we got enough HKs and the alliance were very DRed or they stopped rezzing and then we’d 5 cap it and end the game. There was always a push to not let games take too long though due to the HPH thing and that is for sure the same on both sides as alliance premades let us win the game frequently and we did the same for them sometimes in WSG. My last weekend which was AB weekend we only had 5 fun games. The rest were either we camp pugs at the stables, the other premade gave up or there were a few against very good Herod or Faerlina ally premades where they just were the better team and beat us.
I really enjoyed the rare server vs server games or the games against another similarily skilled premade that decided to try. Overall I really enjoyed the premade experience though verses the PUG one due to so many nasty, toxic people in PUGs but it would have been funner if more games were competitive.
I love PVP. It was a huge grind and, to be honest, I have hardly PVPed in the last 2 weeks since I finished my grind even though it’s my favorite part of the game because it was just too much.
wall of text
wall of text
wall of text
I honestly am inclined to agree.
I can’t even tell who actually has the best win ratio right now. I feel like on the odd chance we get a pug either side just gives up after the initial push. There’s no real fight.
I was pretty much no changes…but since we have merged battlegroups now and not server competition I think it’s time we went pug v pug only.
Rank isn’t hard to get. You just need time. But many want to bg for gasp fun and something to do.
This is on point.
There is almost no PvP happening in BGs at 60 - it’s all premades and AFK’ing.
Games last 5 minutes and either Horde/Alliance are the top 10 in kills, most times the other side gets 0-3 HKs.
Majority of pvp players are on horde as can be seen for the queue times. If there were not pve rewards from the battlegrounds, legit like 5% of alliance would queue for them. People who enjoy pvp and play for fun and to win, are mostly all on horde, and it is not going to get any better. The only ally premades are rankers who wont fight horde premades because it hurts honor per honor with instant queue.
The only solution is to have 40% of horde pvpers come over to ally to split the balance and make pvp much better for everyone.
lol there’s rank13/14 pieces in my “BIS” list, you know what I do? Ignore that stupid grind and get the second best piece.
If you don’t even like PVP, what in the everloving hell are you doing in there. At least in TBC the pvp gear was only for PVP.
I love PVP, the whole reason I came back to classic was for PVP. I loved phase 2 spending 10-15 hours a day in Gorge/Steppes/etc.
But once BGs came out, it just became an endless timesink and especially with how premades have taken over WSG/AB. It just sapped the fun out of it.
And I want the R12 gloves because they’re pretty much PVP BIS until BC.
I’ll probably just play AV here and there and look for some world PVP once my grind is done.
I am optimistic though that after AQ comes out, we’ll see far less premades running for WSG/AB.
Why do you think Classic evolved into retail? You think Blizz just meandered along changing things for the sake of change? Classic had all sorts of issues that are being figured out right now by a new generation of players. PvP balance was one of the biggest issues back then.
Yes, it’s broken. It’s Classic PvP. It won’t get better until Burning Crusade.
I had a lot of fun pvp’ing on the private servers, but Classic PvP has been miserable. And bad decisions on Blizzard’s part are absolutely the cause of it.
I wonder how many of those rEsiLenCe RuiNeD PvP nerds are now like… hold up - that was better?
Private just did it better:
Progressive itemization - so when PVP launched with the gear - it wasn’t BIS. You didn’t need to ZERG farm to min/max right away
Server only - since it was only one server - but still…it was obviously better.
Non 1.12 AV - good mix of who was winning/losing. Both sides could easily premade since there was only half a dozen BGs going at once.
Yep, we had stuff to say. If you’re illiterate stay off the forums and stick with Twitter.
Think he’s talking about OP’s post, which I’d agree with. Paragraph spacing and capitalization are important.
Exactly. For most classes and specs T2 is just as good and far easier to get. I still want the Rank 10 head and shoulders, but only so I have the full set, not because they are necessarily better.
Its really sad, most of the issues come down to population imbalance, and player mentality.
Too many people in Classic are “NO FUN ALLOWED” ultra tryhards, or leechces that give zero about actually pvp’ing or assisting their alliance team mates in bgs.
As much as I think it would improve, it sadly won’t. Players attitudes need to change and its just a culture issue.
Come TBC arenas as going to be biggest toxic cesspool you can imagine with 90% of all players going Horde for Belves on top of Horde racials, and further with how min-max arena gameplay is at even a moderate level.
Sucks, but not much you can do unless blizzard start policing its game for such people dragging the game down for everyone (not chat policing, but action wise such as non-participants and those constantly running their mouth forcing a loss).
classic pvp has always been a complete joke, this shouldnt be news to you OP.
PVP never recovered from xrealm that happened in 1.12. TBC won´t be any different, you still fight with and against total strangers, who just couldn´t give a damn about you.
That´s the whole issue that killed pvp in WOW. Pre 1.12. it was the best I encountered in an MMO, the whole setting and atmosphere, it was brilliant.
But once 1.12. hit, it became the worst I ever saw in an MMO and sadly, many MMO´s followed the xrealm philosophy.
only during the early week, though. Once the heavy rankers are out of the way because they’ve hit their caps, everyone else can actually play the game they pay to play.
It actually feels like vanilla for the latter part of the week; which it should do full-time.