12/10/2017 03:54 PMPosted by
Jâcøb
I agree with ven first of all. In addition i miss vendor buying pvp gear, would be interested in trying the wotlk rating for gear system, and wish there were still gem and enchanting to allow me to alter playstyle vs certain comps in arena. For example, in WOD i had one staff with spirit enchant and one with warsong for haste on top of having different spirit trinkets as opposed to crit or vers trinkets. This allowed me to never go oom vs an !@# by maximizing my mana tea with high spirit but lowered my healing output like CRAZY. Huuuuge difference in playstyle vs certain comps allowed for much more enjoyable theory crafting. This does not mean i want professions back in the game for the bonus enchant or gems btw nobody got time for dat.
WoW is ultimately an MMO, part of that MMO experience is customization of your gear. Makes me so sad to see PvPers with no enchants or gems in their gear. I'd really like to see some level of customization brought back. You're right, it was awesome being able to change your play style and bring some uniqueness to how you're playing.
1 Like
It's sad to see that me being a 2.2 ww this season and nearly 2.7 last season, is getting out geared by heroic raiders who barely know their class, I can understand a mythic raider out gearing a 2.9 rated player, but in no way shape or form should a player who only does normal or heroic raids have a better way of gearing than the best pvpers in the game. I agree 100%
1 Like
Do you think you could make this same post on the General Discussion forums too Venruki? It would get about 1000 times more exposure there than it will here.
1 Like
Thank you Venruki for finally saying something.
Not to knock on his efforts or anything, but everyone was warned about this when they first revealed their ideas for changes, not to mention most of Alpha/Beta.
The vast majority of people here on the Arena forums and on the alpha PvP forums dismissed it (or outright denied it) because they didn't understand how a large percentage of less-serious PvPers approached the game mode.
I was pretty vocal about it at the time (under a different name) on this forum, as well as on the beta forums.
That wasn't my experience at all.
Certain people on the arena forums were like "it can't possibly be worse than WoD" and of course those people are morons and I won't name anyone by name but I do have a couple particularly toxic individuals in mind, but in my experience a lot of people understood that Legion was looking very bleak for PvP.
12/10/2017 04:51 PMPosted by
Venruki
WoW is ultimately an MMO, part of that MMO experience is customization of your gear. Makes me so sad to see PvPers with no enchants or gems in their gear. I'd really like to see some level of customization brought back. You're right, it was awesome being able to change your play style and bring some uniqueness to how you're playing.
Blizzard took this customization away because they want to protect us from being bad, but that's idiotic.
My moonkin for example is an alt of an alt of an alt. I know that Mastery is a better stat, but it's just my !@#$around character. If I want to gem, reforge, and enchant for Haste, I should have that option.
They're so hellbent on protecting players from their own badness.
One of the CMs, I forget whether it was Ornyx or Zahrym, came to the aid of the devs when I was arguing with them on Twitter and made this idiotic argument:
"We wanted to remove Remove Curse from Mages because it could feel really bad if you're a new player and you get yelled at in a dungeon for not pressing it :( :("
That's what the pruning is about. That's what removing gems and enchants and talents and glyphs and reforging is about.
It's all about making less opportunities for players to be bad.
Which means, as a corollary, that there will be less opportunities to be good as well.
These posts make a lot of sense and I am glad to see high rated well known players voicing the concerns the masses have, but I honestly do not see anything being done to fix ilvl or the way Elite sets are rewarded.
Aside from some template balancing PvP development has been at a standstill since Holinka left and I doubt that will change. I can only hope enough players get fed up and quit so they suffer financially for their gross negligence of PvP. They honestly do not deserve our business with this type treatment.
12/10/2017 11:16 AMPosted by
Hansol
WotLK gearing system would be cool to have again. Unlocking the best piece one by one when you reach a certain rating.
No, just a terrible idea. As a person who just got 2k for the first time ever it took a lot of effort for me to do that. Most people cannot accomplish even that goal, and gating the gear behind a rating that most people can't achieve only seems like a good idea when you're a R1 person who sees the rating requirements as trivial.
I remember being able to PvP for gear, then hopping into a raid and being competitive. Bring back vendors please.
I also don't understand why we have no control over the stats in PvP at all. Why do we have any choices in the game mode that we choose to play? Blizzard has already reduced the decision making in areanas (le prune), now they want us to have no decision on what our stats are going to be lol.
"Gear is gear"
This was the statement that was given to the players before the expansion launched. And honestly, I feel lied to.
I've played both sides of the fence in Legion and I have to say that PvE gear stands tall above PvP gear any day of the week. It's easier to obtain, seems to have a higher chance at Titanforging, has actually set bonuses and functions better than PvP gear out in the world in PvP and PvE.
They didn't even give PvP gear quality stats to work with. They just slapped Versatility as one of the main stats when it absolutely means nothing in a system that normalizes all your stats in instanced content.
They really need to rework how you obtain PvP gear and give them proper stats. If they do that, then PvP and PvE gear will almost be on the same level.
I think all the changes we want will happen in the next expansion. I don't see them changing their system with like the last 2 seasons.
Least they could do now is bump up the item levels.
12/10/2017 07:15 PMPosted by
Jalën
"Gear is gear"
This was the statement that was given to the players before the expansion launched. And honestly, I feel lied to.
I've played both sides of the fence in Legion and I have to say that PvE gear stands tall above PvP gear any day of the week. It's easier to obtain, seems to have a higher chance at Titanforging, has actually set bonuses and functions better than PvP gear out in the world in PvP and PvE.
They didn't even give PvP gear quality stats to work with. They just slapped Versatility as one of the main stats when it absolutely means nothing in a system that normalizes all your stats in instanced content.
They really need to rework how you obtain PvP gear and give them proper stats. If they do that, then PvP and PvE gear will almost be on the same level.
PvPers weren't the target audience for the "gear is gear" change.
Blizzard knows we were already happy with the previous system.
The goal was to get more PvE players to start doing PvP without having to farm a separate set of PvP gear.
Basically these Diablo devs are so dumb that they don't even remember how problematic it was gearing for PvP in vanilla, where you basically weren't viable unless you queued BGs 16+ hours a day every day for months, or you did raid content to get gear.
12/10/2017 11:07 AMPosted by
Mabus
yes, and yes.. I *honestly* miss the old system of grinding honor and conquest to get gear..
I miss being able to itemize myself and theorycraft my own stats in pvp.
The pvp template was supposed to 'even the playing field' for under geared folks and allow flexibility in balancing. It did not succeed on either ends, we still have the same balancing issues that we always have had and always will have, and the gap between a fresh 110 and a geared 110 in pvp is larger than ever with artifact weapons, honour talents and ilevel gear.
imo the pvp template ties into how boring it is to gear for pvp
Larger than ever? Really? You literally get to a viable Artifact Weapon lvl in like 10 arenas and plus you can straight up queu as soon as you hit 110 and get honor talents.
Thats all you need.
Are you going to tell me that farming for honor for furious gear and then queing arenas until you got your main parts wrathfull was faster than now? Get real, the system is clearly flawed but its faster than before.
They can't put a higher ilvl for pvp atm because blizzard screwed their own progression, last raid was released before last season, so they either had the last season give more ilvl than the pve last raid or they nerfed one of the previous seasons ilvl.
(I also agree that the rng system is trash btw).
I've always preferred PvP, it's even more important for me now because of work and not being able to raid like I used to be able to years ago.....adulting etc. I haven't PvP'd at all this xpac....I basically log on and level up all of my alts because I don't have time to raid to get gear. At this point I am just going from toon to toon trying to get all the class mounts. PvP is dead for guys like me.
I agree with basically everything you said.
Good post, for next expansion. blizz checked out a long time ago. I have little hope that blizz will do anything this expansion, even though it would take them like 5mins of Dev time to increase ilvl.
Cross post this to gd where it will be seen
While I do think this is a big issue, and I agree with your assessment as part of the problem... I don't think this is the only issue causing the drop in numbers by any means. The gear itself doesn't really even feel like it has much of an effect because of the stat templates (in instanced pvp), and in world... well, that's not going to matter much longer either because they're converting all servers to PvE... further demotivating the value of gear for PvP.
One of the other issues Tosan pointed out, is that by making damage rotations so easy to do, it's lowered the skill required by dpsers, and has shifted that skill increase to healers. That in turn, makes it hard to find healers because it's stressful, unrewarding, and often toxic.
Then there's how the elite mogs are held hostage until they are no longer attainable, making it completely undesirable to even bother farming them, as you have to wait until the new expac to even get it unless you pray to RNGesus.
The final issue is the fact that as the PvP community shrinks more and more, it in turn, reduces the amount of rewards given out at the end of the season because duelist, glad, rank 1... are all percentage based... which then decreases motivation to PvP, which in turn lowers the participation more and more in an endless cycle. It also doesn't help that some of those glad spots are taken by alts of rank 1s (some of which are playing multiple of the same class), and by carries. Having to be the top .5% to get glad honestly seems kind of wildly overkill. You could be in the top .6% of all PvPers at the end of the season... and you'd just get the duelist title... From any other game's perspective, you'd be considered godly.
Just some of my observations, but yeah... I appreciate you using your status to try to get attention to the PvP issues Venruki. Hopefully they actually pay attention to your post.