01/09/2018 02:15 PMPosted by
Omegal
Of course, when they fix it so PVP gear is competitive again, there will be a 21 page thread from pvers who feel forced to pvp for gear.
This has been a no win situation for years, and it has literally gone back and forth for years. Either pvp gear is good and pvers are unhappy, or pvp gear is bad and pvpers are unhappy.
They'll probably do something like make gear irrelevant in world pvp with scaling to try and bandaid it
I mean, there's been plenty of iterations of gearing that worked out ideally for this situation. There's the dummy PvP stat, Resilience... which makes it where if you take PvP gear, your performance will be better in world, but not as great in PvE as it costs you a stat slot... There was also the PvP combat scaling gear, where it was lower item level in PvE, but when in PvP combat, it shoots up the gear scaling.
Just because they went out of their way to make it a problem this expansion, doesn't mean there hasn't been solutions which they just chose to just ignore for this expansion.
01/09/2018 02:15 PMPosted by
Omegal
Of course, when they fix it so PVP gear is competitive again, there will be a 21 page thread from pvers who feel forced to pvp for gear.
This has been a no win situation for years, and it has literally gone back and forth for years. Either pvp gear is good and pvers are unhappy, or pvp gear is bad and pvpers are unhappy.
They'll probably do something like make gear irrelevant in world pvp with scaling to try and bandaid it
Just give everyone identical gear in pvp? The customisation can be in or talent selection. The way it is currently, if you don't have a job you will have a major edge on those who do - in pvp.
01/09/2018 02:15 PMPosted by
Omegal
Of course, when they fix it so PVP gear is competitive again, there will be a 21 page thread from pvers who feel forced to pvp for gear.
Simple solution: Stop catering to tryhards who don't care one bit about the RPG aspects of this game and would rather turn WoW PvP into as much of an e-sport as possible.
It sadly doesn't really give any indicator of their stance as to why the gear item level is shorted by 15 points this season, nor if they plan to change it, which was the main purpose of this post.
It was just poor timing of the seasons honestly. Season 5 should have had no increase in power so that Season 6 did. Yes, we would have had a no increase of power in season 7 also, but top rated players wouldn't feel out geared by PvEers.
Next season, at the start of March probably, PvP gear will scale to be higher and we'll all be on the same tier of item level.
This does not solve the fact of bad stats, bad trinkets and no sets when playing the rest of the game. (hence why even if they up'd the item level, intelligent PvErs wouldn't do it "for the gear")
It just feels bad for PvPers to not scale while PvErs do, but next season it will level out.
Thanks guys for all the feedback here as I've been tracking this thread for quite a while. With Battle for Azeroth we aren't ready to share information on what changes may be coming past what has been shared at BlizzCon.
PVP is something that has been actively discussed going forward into the new expansion, no idea on if any changes are going to be made but keep in mind we still have a whole Alpha and Beta cycle to go through so please keep the discussion up.
I feel like smoke is being blown in a place I poop from
Or at least give us our elite sets after we hit 2k ffs
Be nice to the blue and maybe they'll come back. Kind of didn't address the question but at least we have been acknowledged.
01/09/2018 02:15 PMPosted by
Omegal
Of course, when they fix it so PVP gear is competitive again, there will be a 21 page thread from pvers who feel forced to pvp for gear.
This has been a no win situation for years, and it has literally gone back and forth for years. Either pvp gear is good and pvers are unhappy, or pvp gear is bad and pvpers are unhappy.
They'll probably do something like make gear irrelevant in world pvp with scaling to try and bandaid it
The simple solution is to make PvP reward any gear you can find in PvE. Scale the item level off rating equivalent to that of Mythic+ keystones.
If a 2200 rated player got the same stats on gear as a +22 mythic dunegon, more people would have the option to do either their 1000th run of +15 MoS or they could choose to play some 1900 rated arena. Now you can raid, do mythic+ or PvP and get "competitive gear" in all aspects of WoW.
Template adjustments can come in the form of talents, and be similar to having 3 sets of gear in your bags, 1 stam, 1 haste and 1 crit talents. Choose the talent for this arena is no different then choose which set of gear you want to put on.
Simply increasing the itemlevel on PvP gear will not help, the stats and trinkets also have to change to be relevant, otherwise there's still no point. And that's all it takes.
Put loot tables on Arena maps, so winning on Tol'vir has a chance to drop the Sky Temple Trinket of the Whale, granting +2000 haste and giving your attacks a chance to proc +2000 agi.
Item level fixed.
Templates customization fixed.
Gearing fixed.
Add cosmetic rewards, set recolors, pets, tabards, cloaks and mounts on rating for instant gratification so players queue up constantly to push rating. Those who enjoy PvP can continue to play even after hitting 2500.
Exactly, even if you guys don't like what he has to say, including me. Being nice to the blue will make him more inclined to communicate more with us, which we all want
Thanks guys for all the feedback here as I've been tracking this thread for quite a while. With Battle for Azeroth we aren't ready to share information on what changes may be coming past what has been shared at BlizzCon.
PVP is something that has been actively discussed going forward into the new expansion, no idea on if any changes are going to be made but keep in mind we still have a whole Alpha and Beta cycle to go through so please keep the discussion up.
Thanks for the post.
But here lies the problem i'm worried about here. You mention a alpha/beta to continue a discussion but this discussion is a one way discussion with players in an echo chamber at that. Where are the devs or the pvp devs?
I understand we just came off a long holiday break so there is a lot to do but you can't have meaningful conversations by not acknowledging the problems and communicating back.
Sometimes things just don't work as well as it did on paper and that is ok but i think wow devs need be more open about that. The current problem with gearing right now is poor timing at the end of expansion. I would understand that way more in a response from a pvp dev taking ten minutes to explain that than just ignoring the issue altogether.
Overwatch seems to do well with communicating even from the top of the development team and I truly think wow can learn a few things there.
01/09/2018 02:15 PMPosted by
Omegal
Of course, when they fix it so PVP gear is competitive again, there will be a 21 page thread from pvers who feel forced to pvp for gear.
This has been a no win situation for years, and it has literally gone back and forth for years. Either pvp gear is good and pvers are unhappy, or pvp gear is bad and pvpers are unhappy.
They'll probably do something like make gear irrelevant in world pvp with scaling to try and bandaid it
Sure it's a no-win in a sense. It's a no-win in the sense that when it's too strong even PvPers hate the fact it's so gamebreaking and when it's weak people don't feel rewarded for their efforts. But the virtually unanimous consensus is that in general PvP needs more of an incentive system, whether it be more (and MUCH cooler) PvP cosmetic gear sets (i.e. challenge modes), more mounts, more titles, more enchants, etc. With an ABYSMAL ratio of PvE rewards vs. PvP rewards, Blizzard somehow found a way to provide LESS this expansion despite it being a TOP priority item (of somehow INCREASING priority) for the past 3 expansions or so. That is indefensible. The only correct response from them on it is "We really let everyone down on X item, we're sorry about that and here's a detailed plan on how we will fix it". Anything shy of that isn't worthwhile at this point.
01/09/2018 02:15 PMPosted by
Omegal
Of course, when they fix it so PVP gear is competitive again, there will be a 21 page thread from pvers who feel forced to pvp for gear.
This has been a no win situation for years, and it has literally gone back and forth for years. Either pvp gear is good and pvers are unhappy, or pvp gear is bad and pvpers are unhappy.
They'll probably do something like make gear irrelevant in world pvp with scaling to try and bandaid it
Ehhh not quite. In previous expansions/systems, there really wasn't an option for step-in gear for a fresh toon other than lfr or pvp gear. Because of that, people felt "forced" to pvp to get a starting set of gear simply because the catch-up pvp gear was better for beginning pve than the lowest level entry pve gear. We have a bazillion ways to obtain quality pve gear now, and the ONLY thing that matters in instanced pvp is item level. Because of that - i just don't see it being an issue anymore where someone should feel "forced" to pvp when you have m+, world bosses, world quests, lfr, etc. all giving you guaranteed gear.
The specific problem right now is that the item level of the gear dropped from rated PvP is about 20 item levels behind where it should be. I.e., rival and duelist brackets are dropping LFR quality loot, which is stupid considering those brackets are the top 10%/3% (respectively) of the ladder. You should not be competing against players of that caliber for rewards equivalent to something that is basically free. As with anything in an mmo, people just don't participate if there's no reward/drive. Because of this gap - people just aren't participating in PvP.
What would be really cool I think, is if they did a spotlight for each class, where they take suggestions for PvP on each class / spec for the new expansion in the forums, with maybe a list of some of the ideas they're floating around for each ahead of time so we could give actual feedback.
Too many expansions it feels like for every one thing they get right in PvP, there's two things they get wrong. An example of that this expansion is that I think the Brawls have been an amazing addition to the game... but because of the mistakes when it comes to rewards, there's no motivation to do the brawls at all. When you hurt the game cycle of the game that much, it cancels out the potentially good things that you bring in.
Wouldn't it be cool if the item level of your pvp drop was determined by your position on the ladder as opposed to your actual rating?
Thanks guys for all the feedback here as I've been tracking this thread for quite a while. With Battle for Azeroth we aren't ready to share information on what changes may be coming past what has been shared at BlizzCon.
PVP is something that has been actively discussed going forward into the new expansion, no idea on if any changes are going to be made but keep in mind we still have a whole Alpha and Beta cycle to go through so please keep the discussion up.
Just bring back resilience in pvp gear with vendors. Problem solved.
Another Blizz failure. Devs should be ashamed.
01/09/2018 02:15 PMPosted by
Omegal
Of course, when they fix it so PVP gear is competitive again, there will be a 21 page thread from pvers who feel forced to pvp for gear.
This has been a no win situation for years, and it has literally gone back and forth for years. Either pvp gear is good and pvers are unhappy, or pvp gear is bad and pvpers are unhappy.
They'll probably do something like make gear irrelevant in world pvp with scaling to try and bandaid it
Add resilience back to pvp gear!
Pvp gear is now good for pvp and still bad for pve
Pve gear is still good for pve and now bad for pvp
Fixed!
01/09/2018 02:15 PMPosted by
Omegal
Of course, when they fix it so PVP gear is competitive again, there will be a 21 page thread from pvers who feel forced to pvp for gear.
Simple solution: Stop catering to tryhards who don't care one bit about the RPG aspects of this game and would rather turn WoW PvP into as much of an e-sport as possible.
The game is fun when it is balanced. You are just crying because you can't roflstomp fresh 110s after being at cap for 6 months. It has nothing to do with RPG or elitism. Git gud.
Previous expansions didn't offer much by way of customization anyway. Everyone is talking like we all experimented with gems, enchants, and stat forging instead of looking up what were the best stats for a given class/spec were in pve/pvp.
01/09/2018 02:15 PMPosted by
Omegal
Of course, when they fix it so PVP gear is competitive again, there will be a 21 page thread from pvers who feel forced to pvp for gear.
This has been a no win situation for years, and it has literally gone back and forth for years. Either pvp gear is good and pvers are unhappy, or pvp gear is bad and pvpers are unhappy.
They'll probably do something like make gear irrelevant in world pvp with scaling to try and bandaid it
Sure maybe it was ok to get you started back in the day with raids but when have PvEers ever actually been forced to PvP for gear? I can think of many more instances where PvPers had been forced to PvE for trinkets and legendaries.
I swear PvEers are some of the whiniest players iv ever seen.
Also do you have a link to this 21 page thread?
Ill be real straight here with seasons being way shorter and lack of participation, even 2200 is top 3% of PvPers, like the top 3% in NA or EU, much harder than a heroic raid, the gear SHOULD be better.
Just looked at the ladder, if your 2200 right now you are in the top 700 players in NA, out of probably roughly 50,000 participants going by last seasons numbers. Think about that for a second. Also note that we are only like a month into the season, rating has not inflated yet, so alot of those current 2200 players are probably 2400-2600 players on the norm.