100% this if blizzard looks at this now they are saving themselves from losing tons of people who are basically sick of being ignored and will just quit and unsub
PvE Gear Item Levels
|M+15||262 End, 278 Vault|
Rated Gear Item Levels
|Rank||iLvL||PvP iLvL||Rating Req.|
|Rank 1 Unranked||249||262|
|Rank 2 Combatant I||252||265||1,000|
|Rank 3 Combatant II||255||268||1,200|
|Rank 4 Challenger I||259||272||1,400|
|Rank 5 Challenger II||262||275||1,600|
|Rank 6 Rival I||265||278||1,800|
|Rank 7 Rival II||268||281||1,950|
|Rank 8 Duelist||272||285||2,100|
|Rank 9 Elite||275||285||2,400|
Honor Gear Item Levels
|Rank||iLvL||PvP iLvL||Heroic Raid Delta||Challenger II Delta||Max Delta|
The vast majority of PvP matches that take place are in Honor Battlegrounds. I play a DPS class in PvP usually. Even in full rank 7 Honor gear in 9.1.5, I am either blowing up Rank 1 people (some of whom who are clearly better players than me based on the rotations I see them using) while taking no damage at all or getting two shot by teams of conquest geared PvP players. Rarely do I find myself in evenly matched games.
This is enormously frustrating for people who are trying to gear up an alt, or play continuously on a fully honor geared character; especially once the season is even moderately underway and mains are geared. It is a miserable slog of an experience (Except for the Glads doing the stomping).
Based on the PTR iLvLs I’ve included above I have no reasonable expectation that it will be any different in 9.2.
The iLvl Deltas in the bottom 3-4 honor upgrade levels are still far too large.
There is also in my opinion no good reason why iLvL should not be capped at a maximum level inside of queued Honor based PvP content. If there was an honor level 8 it would be another +3 or +4 iLvL which would leave a nice cap of PvP iLvL 263 to stomp on the amatures and casuals in honor BGs. If they’re as good as their gear it shouldn’t bother them much.
I think they really do need to do something especially since they will just keep hemorrhaging players until they fix it.
It should really be a priority. I always wished we could be stacked in random bgs and feel what its like to be full geared to make it more of a skill based playing field.
I think its a pretty commonly known fact, that MoP PvP gearing was some of the best we’ve ever had. And, in MoP we had 2 levels of PvP gear. Honor, and Conquest.
Rated PvP was largely filled with people in full conquest gear, meaning that high rated PvP was more skill based and less gear based. Now, I have a full Rival I (1800) pvp set on my hunter, and when my MMR gets too high I get queued into 2100+ teams with Duelist gear and get strictly outgeared. That’s not fun.
That’s not even talking about grinding out your honor set for the first time.
Now, I’m not advocating for templates. I didn’t like them for the short time they were implemented, and I don’t want to see them return.
But, I do think that someone in full conquest gear should have a PvP advantage over someone in full Mythic Raid gear, just as I think the Mythic raid gear should outperform PvP gear in raid.
Part of the problem with this is Versatility being “The PvP Stat”. Because, there are specs in this game, like many tanks and WW monks, for whom Vers is their best PvE stat, therefore PvP gearing is a more than viable way of gearing for PvE.
I may be in the minority, but I would personally like to see PvP Power and/or Resilience come back as “The PvP Stat(s)”.
100% this. During MoP I remember putting stamina gems in my gear cause I was so well itemized and just wanted more health. Monk especially has been really well off for this expansion because of good itemized gear for my two specs tank/dps. The new tier set however for monk are basically the opposite of what will be good for tank/dps forcing me to suffer heavily by losing out on a huge percentage of vers to maintain the tier set bonuses
I’m surprised I didn’t see this anywhere on the PTR forums or fansites, but it looks like the devs nerfed honor costs for upgrading honor gear by quite a bit, almost 50% from launch values. Down from 7100~ to 3750 for a chest/helm/legs for example.
I don’t have any conquest gear to check yet, was there a similar nerf in honor required overall for conquest gear upgrades?
Seems to be a little lower also does the PVP trinket quest really only give you access to the one you choose? Seems kinda broken to lock us out of having more than one
The quest is weekly, so you can choose another one next week.
Really wish that if we are Conquest capped the weekly quests give more honor or vice versa would be a nice QOL change for people trying to gear
I play all BGs and have always found the whole 2 teams of 3 people in a box paradigm of PvP not much fun. The fact that all of PvP is balanced around this tiny little box for the revenue generated by esports is awful IMO.
I’d really like to see the balancing of honor BGs be entirely separate from whatever considerations are made for “comps” and whatnot that have nothing to do with a giant BG romp (which is super fun to me)
I dont think PvP should be balanced around non rated play or at least it should be the after thought.
That being said I think the new PvP trinkets are basically just everyone choosing resonator for the OP 40k bomb which seems to absolutely slap in a bad way its basically just Drestagoth 2.0. I think the others that ive tried so far have been pretty mediocre with the magic shield one being almost useless when someone can slap it off instantly and need to be correctly tuned to work in line more with the resonator trinket which is just required at this point. I think the heal absorb one is okay but seems to under perform in all the cases ive used it on my alt.
Both of the stun trinkets seem to be pretty terrible and really need to be brought in line with the other ones as it is looking like they wont be picked by anyone until the eventual nerf to resonator
Seems it was nerfed already but I still think they need to buff the other trinkets
So what your saying is that honor battlegrounds, the PvP content that the vast majority of the player base plays compared to all others, should receive no balancing and playability considerations other than what falls off the table of rated play?
Personally I think there is a substantial population of players that want a much more enjoyable honor battlegrounds experience and don’t particularly care about rated play. They want an even unrated playing field where very well geared rated players aren’t always jumping into their content and ruining their experience. And to be clear those players have no problem whatsoever getting beat with skill, however there are quite a few people with let’s just say less than above average skill running around honor BGs leveraging their iLvL advantage. It’s really obvious at the beginning of a season watching those same people run around employing the same “bull in a china shop” tactics and getting blown up. It’s easy to see who they are right now.
Im not saying they shouldnt balance it period im just saying that 3v3 and 15v15 are so different that they really shouldnt be balanced in the same way as what most people do in a regular BG is not what they are doing in a 3v3
As the season is progressing it’s really becoming clear that the 8 week delay on the creation catalyst was a bad idea, specifically for PvPers. People are already having to face others that either RNG’d tier from the vault or that are bringing it in from other content with no way to get it themselves if the RNG isn’t good to them too. Waiting several more weeks for the catalyst to open and then another 4 weeks for the unluckiest of us to finally get tier bonuses seems a bit much. I get that the season will be going on for a while and so in the long run everyone will get their tier, but this feels really bad now and will continue to for several weeks to come. It already felt bad not getting an RNG weapon out of the vault and fighting people who did, but now we have tier added into the mix and it has made it so much worse.
I don’t think that the devs will open the creation catalyst early because of the PvE implications, but I think it really should be done. The timegate of 1pc/week also should really be looked at. It feels extra punishing on top of having to wait 8 weeks to open the thing in the first place.
Finally, looking at future seasons. If this is how tier is going to work in the future, being available from all content, then I really need to refer back to my first post on tier in this thread and strongly suggest that PvP gear get its own set bonuses again and disable PvE tier in PvP. All of the issues tier is causing in PvP right now, from the imbalances of the bonuses themselves to the availability issues, they’d all be moot if we had our own set bonuses available on honor and conquest gear as it was from Vanilla-WoD. I’m hoping that this is the path the team will go down in future seasons. Honestly even next season would be great too.
100% agree they should open it early since doing PvE to PvP is pretty lame especially if you wanted to stay competitive or just play period. This is literally all the stuff people said was going to happen and they moved forward anyway.
They cant “want feedback” and listen to no one.
So for the Mog collectors I noticed you can not purchase the full S3 set from the PVP conquest vendor. Is this something that was intended? It would be nice to be able to spend our conquest on the gear instead of having to sacrifice a vault slot from raiding or m+ to get the mog.
3rd week getting options for tier set gear with no bonuses in PvP
Holinka just announced that WoD gearing with 2 sets is returning. Hoping that this remains the case, if so thank you for listening to our feedback!
Love this change!