If you try to nerf mana efficiency to meet some arbitrary time limit what’s going to happen in reality is that Blizzard is going to overnerf and more healers will feel like Holy Priest where they run OOM in 2 minutes trying to keep up with current damage outputs
It’s not fun and it’s already an inherently more stressful role than DPS that just get to ooga booga their buttons for 30 minutes straight without caring about resources, and we already have dampening to prevent super long games
The best players in the world didnt play either spec one time in awc. Those are the “right hands.” If you look at representation over 2400 there is…
9 MW
33 Rdruid
Compared to 293 Holy Paladins.
Statistically speaking, you are just wrong. There is a near 30:1 and 9:1 ratio respectively for hpally to mw or rdruid. Many previous r1 rdruids are struggling or switched classes.
These classes need to be atleast a 2:1 hpally:x ratio minimum
Mana only matters compared to your opponent mana, you do know this right? The question is, should healers run in in 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 15 minutes? I think 5 minutes is about right with better healers have slightly worse mana efficiency and worse healers overall having a little better. Do you think I would care if I went oom in 3 minutes if every other healer went oom in 2 minutes? That does not change the current stress of the game it just dictates game length and makes healing efficiency more relevant sooner.
lol what… just because something isnt played in the awc doesnt mean that it’s weak, it just means that something else is better, try again.
the first rule of statistics, correalation =/= causation, and that’s what your argument rests upon. 
Stop feeding Bloom attention guys just trolling and adds nothing to the discussion.
Also dont know if I want rdruid to be stier again stealth rake clone stealth drink is toxic if you dont play comps tailored with a lot of purges to punish going for resets.
Good call. Guy is lost.
Disagree. Running oom in 5 mins of a game only feels bad due to the fact that specs like Hpal/rsham (Moreso Hpal than Rsham) don’t go oom at all in which you can use the arguement “well, if I had infinite mana i’d be able to do x just like them” whereas every healer would then need infinite mana which would result in even longer games and we’d end up with BFA.
Most games where I q into a paladin if I win or lose my mana would be somewhere around 20% meanwhile paladins is still at a whopping 80-90%. If you watched the AWC and watched the EU Jungle vs LSPala the Disc had 6 drinks in an arena match. While this won them the game the Paladin had 0 drinks the entire game and ended the match at 30% mana meanwhile disc ended the match oom after jumping from ab 20% mana to roughly 65%-70% mana 6 times. Paladins shouldn’t have that much mana efficiency w 0 drinks. Paladin seems to be the only healer in the game w this extreme of a mana issue in 3v3s. Havn’t q’d into enough Rshams in 3v3 to really know if they have the same issue but from the few I have q’d into they lose way more mana than Hpal.
Mana efficiency is literally what decides how you play your character
You might not care if you die because you went OOM in 3 minutes but you’re not playing the game in a bubble by yourself, other people matter lol
Players new to healing or healing in PvP don’t enjoy being the reason they lose games, and if you try to scale mana efficiency to the point where the best players are OOM in 3-5 minutes then players at lower ratings are going to have an even bigger problem
Probably an unpopular opinion. I would like to see caster go oom again and resources such as rage or energy takes a longer time to generate. Though i don’t see this ever happening unless all the classes are redesigned.
Yes HPal is broken
But I have an issue with trying to nerf mana to force games to be short, I don’t think that is a fun change for most of the people playing healers who are already in short supply, and I don’t trust Blizz to balance with that mindset because they’re inevitably just going to go overboard with some specs
They do need to find some sort of parity in mana balance between healers, ideally with OOMing being a looming danger for everyone.
However, I think what should also happen – but would take slightly more work, and would impact PvE – is heightening the importance of active mana regeneration cooldowns.
Mana management should again be a point of distinction between good healers/teams and bad ones. Every healer should have a form of active mana regeneration (e.g. Shadowfiend, Mana Tide, old Innervate, Divine Plea, Mana Tea) – but it also needs to be counterable, punishing healers who fail to maximize them.
Shadowfiend is a wonderful example. Make it give noticeably more mana per hit. What’ll a smart team do versus that? CC it or even kill it. What’ll a smart priest do to prevent that? Dispel it and/or cross CC.
We desperately need more impactful ways to differentiate between good and bad players, where poor play is punished and smart play rewarded.
As it stands, the state of mana for healers is completely arbitrary and ill-thought-out. HPals don’t have any active regeneration, but just don’t OOM. RShams got a ton of tools unpruned including Mana Tide & Water Shield, putting them well above the non-HPal healers. Priest mana costs are arbitrarily high for trivial spells, as are MW’s and RDruid’s.
Apparently Blizzard doesn’t think so? Haven’t seen any mention of it and all we get is divine favor nerf. MW is fine too I guess?
The problem of healers being in short demand isn’t due to the fact that healers go oom. The reason healers are short in demand is the exact same as in any game where there are role qs. If you gave a poll out to people more often than not people would pick doing damage over healing.
I mean, look at games like Overwatch, League, or hell even Valorant or other role q games. More people choose the pure DPS heros over the support heros because as the pure DPS heros you have one job to do, dps and typically it isthe most fun job to do in the game. Why worry about supporting your team as a tank or healer when you can just smorc?
I’m sure if more people decided to actually commit to healers they would find one they enjoy after practicing but overall more people will tend to lean torwards the more straightforward damaging heros/specs.
I mean healing is stressful so more people are going to go towards the hit buttons ooga booga role, myself included
My only point is I just don’t think making it more restrictive is necessarily the best change, I feel like it would hurt interest even more and we need to consider how changes affect participation
This seems like a promising suggestion IMO though
Might be one of the reasons. Another is bad class balance. Who would want to heal right now as mistweaver? So that cuts down on available healers
Since you do not play a healer I think you should just listen to what the actual glad healers are saying in the thread instead. I think most of us want some type of mana parity and games that are in the 5ish minute range. Like less than 10% want dampeners. The most important thing is that mana is balanced between healers and then seeing about when healers should be ooming in general. If you havent played a healer then you wouldnt know that its much more stressful to heal 15 minute straight compared to 5 minute straight if the factor is just ooming. Its also much more annoying to lose a 15 minute dampener compared to a 5 minute one.
I think it’s fine that he has his own opinion on what healers should have. However after playing a healer for 7-8 years now not once have I ever been upset that “my class goes oom”. Typically regardless of what healer I play if I am upset it’s usually due to blizzards poor balancing changes. I have high hopes for Shadowlands especially because when they make changes SO FAR they have been good ones. Not everything we need but at the same time you don’t wanna make too many changes and drastically change everything.
I was putting in my two cents that most low rated healers in not just my experience when I was lower rated, but nowadays get asked about there was never a “How do I not go oom” it was moreso a question like “What do I do in X comp or what do I do against this comp that just runs at me” etc.
I’m sure there are people that have struggles with going oom but man tbh I don’t see how a healer could be more worried about their mana bar than how they rotate cd’s or position.
The problem with balancing a game like WOW is that even a very small advantage gets amplified over the massive player base.
If covenant ability A is slightly better than covenant ability B, the proportion of people using ability A is going to be much larger than the actual advantage that ability A provides. As a result, people will come on the forums and say covenant ability A is OP, when in reality, it is just slightly better (because one ability must be better if they are different), and that means all of the people in PVP are using it (and winning with it).
That’s just how the game is right now. Even supatease said that holy priest would be battling it out with the hpal if it had better mana. I can’t speak on resto druids since I don’t play one but I’ve noticed they also go oom pretty quickly.
I just think if you’re going to have a healer like hpal with crazy many efficiency, they need to bring all healers to that level or nerf Hpal down a ton
And I don’t see Blizzard nerfing hpal based on these latest patch notes. This is probably all we will see for another month
Yeah and I think it’d be better if Hpal was brought down. Like I said in my original post in 3v3 pretty much every single healer but Rsham (maybe, havn’t q’d into enough) and DEFINITELY Hpal don’t go oom within that 5 minute window. Rdruids kinda oom, typically they can last about 6-7 minutes, which like I said in my original post im fine with 7-8 min games every now and then but I def don’t want 7-8 min games every arena.
And I think i’ve qd into a single MW in arena and won that game in 30 seconds so I don’t even know about their mana situation.